British family ripped apart by World War One

[Matlock1418]

As included on the BBC 10 Aug 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66457285

Anyone know this family?

and, if the caption 'headline' is actually true?

I suspect National Portrait Gallery members and/or Ancestry subscribers may have a head start.

M

Edited 10 August , 2023 by Matlock1418

[FROGSMILE]

Kings Royal Rifle Corps, Voluntary Aid Detachment (British Red Cross Society contingent), Boy Scouts, with a mixed gender and age group family at the heart and periphery.  It all looks a bit like a representative family selected by the BBC’s equal opportunities and inclusivity department.

Edited 10 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Kings Royal Rifle Corps, Voluntary Aid Detachment (British Red Cross Society contingent), Boy Scouts, with a mixed gender and age group family at the heart and periphery.  It all looks a bit like a representative family selected by the BBC’s equal opportunities and inclusivity department.

 It does, and one has to wonder if the rest is just a good storyline, or true.  ???

I know how GWF members like a good challenge.

If somehow we can get to the source of the photo we might be able to add to the storyline, or to provide an alternative.  ???

M

Edited 10 August , 2023 by Matlock1418
tweak

[Interested]

"Family ripped apart"...dramatic licence, I suppose.

[Knotty]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

I suspect National Portrait Gallery members and/or Ancestry subscribers may have a head start.

Not displayed on the site yet, last photographic display showing is up to 6th Aug, not been updated.

[corisande]

51 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

If somehow we can get to the source of the photo

 

I put the photo into Googles photo recognition software, but it does not find an identical photo anywhere. Though it doss bring up a lot of WW1 family photos

[Matlock1418]

17 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Not displayed on the site yet, last photographic display showing is up to 6th Aug, not been updated.

14 minutes ago, corisande said:

I put the photo into Googles photo recognition software, but it does not find an identical photo anywhere.

Not just me then = Thanks for looking.

M

[CorporalPunishment]

Given the number of families that were truly "ripped apart" by the Great War I can't help feeling the amount of scepticism surrounding the photo in the opening post is a bit much. Nobody knows what became of the soldier (Finsbury Rifles I believe), the nurse or the boy scout who may well have enlisted later in the war. Perhaps I'm suffering from a lack of cynicism but I see nothing dubious about that photo at all.     Pete.

[PRC]

Pictures are allegedly on Ancestry rather than the National Portrait Gallery https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/the-nations-family-album

Whatever search criteria I try brings up either hundreds, (Scout) or none at all (Family War). They are however visible even with just a free account, so just need someone to come up with magic phrase

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Given the number of families that were truly "ripped apart" by the Great War I can't help feeling the amount of scepticism surrounding the photo in the opening post is a bit much. Nobody knows what became of the soldier (Finsbury Rifles I believe), the nurse or the boy scout who may well have enlisted later in the war. Perhaps I'm suffering from a lack of cynicism but I see nothing dubious about that photo at all.     Pete.

It could be Finsbury Rifles if later in the war (1916 onward).  The family scene seems to imply a time relatively early on, with the joint efforts of everyone on show, and the rifleman has an 05 cap and a regular soldier’s good conduct badge for 2-years service, so hence my thoughts it must most likely be KRRC.  I believe the GCB could be awarded for retrospective service to T.F. soldiers upon the promulgation of the Military Service Act, the badges were already eligible for Kitchener’s service battalion men who were categorised as regulars.  If it were later in the war a P16 cap would be more likely.

Edited 11 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[corisande]

A bit more digging on Google leads me to where the photo came from,(an article in London Post)

https://london-post.co.uk/ancestry-and-the-national-portrait-gallery-launch-the-nations-family-album/

But that does not say anything about the photo, even though it uses it. They do say that the photos should now be on display

• .

Ancestry®, the global leader in family history, and the National Portrait Gallery, are thrilled to unveil the highly anticipated display, The Nation’s Family Album this August. The collection celebrates the richness and diversity of family stories across Britain through the years. The Nation’s Family Album is open to the public for free from 10th August 2023 and features a selection of Britain’s most cherished images and stories, with four highlighted portraits on display. An additional 100 portraits, shortlisted as part of the selection process, will be highlighted digitally in the Gallery.
Following over 2,200 submissions by the British public last year, an esteemed panel* selected four images and backstories to be exhibited at the iconic National Portrait Gallery. The four portraits were selected for their encapsulation of the key themes of The Nation’s Family Album: belonging, connection, legacy and identity. Rotimi Odukoya, David Abbott, Stephen Illffe and Ian George McLean’s photographs each hold a story unbeknown to the naked eye.

..................................

The display at the National Portrait Gallery will be available to view for free from 10th August – 10th September 2023 in its newly refurbished Spotlight Space, where culture lovers and history buffs alike can delve into some of the nation’s most heartwarming stories. The images and stories featured at the Gallery, alongside all the shortlisted images, will be available to view in a permanent online collection amongst over 40 billion records on Ancestry later this year.

....

[FROGSMILE]

So assuming that they have focused on a male of military age and in uniform as the principal character in each photograph the rifleman must be either, Rotimi Odukoya, David Abbott, Stephen Illffe or Ian George McLean.

Edited 11 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[charlie2]

58 minutes ago, corisande said:

Rotimi Odukoya, David Abbott, Stephen Illffe and Ian George McLean’s photographs each hold a story unbeknown to the naked eye.

Depending on how one interprets the sentence, it could indicate that either the 4 persons are in the photos or that they supplied the photos.

Does the backing to the cap badge give any indication to which regiment?
 

Charlie

[Knotty]

I think you will find those 4 are the judges of the photographs  that have been chosen for the exhibition.

 

Edited 11 August , 2023 by Knotty

[Matlock1418]

Thank you for the replies so far [and for the future I hope]

10 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Given the number of families that were truly "ripped apart" by the Great War I can't help feeling the amount of scepticism surrounding the photo in the opening post is a bit much. Nobody knows what became of the soldier (Finsbury Rifles I believe), the nurse or the boy scout who may well have enlisted later in the war. Perhaps I'm suffering from a lack of cynicism but I see nothing dubious about that photo at all.   

Scepticism/Cynicism, not really, though we all probably all know of situations where the 'glamerous' end of the stick has been promoted by the media and others though the reality is somewhat different.  We do understand some families were ripped apart - though perhaps not photographed together. I wondered about who did the research and was interested and enquiring about the story.

23 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

So assuming that they have focused on a male of military age and in uniform as the principal character in each photograph the rifleman must be either, Rotimi Odukoya, David Abbott, Stephen Illffe or Ian George McLean.

I believe these people are a person(s) in another image(s) and photographers and unfortunately thus not candidates for the rifleman.

M

[corisande]

I assume that PR has got ahead of the ability to deilver

NPG site gives

The Nation’s Family Album. The Gallery’s exciting partnership with Ancestry Over 125,000 digitised portraits spanning 500 years from the Gallery’s extensive Collection are now available on Ancestry®.

To celebrate, the National Portrait Gallery has partnered with Ancestry to create The Nation’s Family Album – a search for undiscovered portraits of everyday British people collated into a representative album. The initiative invited people of different ages, backgrounds and cultures in the UK to delve through suitcases in attics, scour photos on walls or flick through albums on bookshelves and submit their favourite family images.

The Nation’s Family Album is set to be an important record of our collective history, as it will highlight, celebrate and capture the rich and diverse family stories across Britain, making it easier for future generations to find out more about their family history.

A panel of experts – including the National Portrait Gallery’s Chief Curator, Dr Alison Smith, and family history expert Simon Pearce from Ancestry – have shortlisted a selection of portraits that best encapsulate the themes of Belonging, Legacy, Connection and Identity.

A selection of images will be on display in the Spotlight Space on Floor -3 from Thursday 10 August to Sunday 10 September 2023.

Explore the Collection on Ancestry

 

If you click their link to Ancestry, it takes you to

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62208/

Someone with more patience/time than I, may get somewhere - I got nowhere

 

[Knotty]

1 minute ago, corisande said:

A selection of images will be on display in the Spotlight Space on Floor -3 from Thursday 10 August to Sunday 10 September 2023.

Checked on that last night, still have the previous exhibition showing.

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, corisande said:

I assume that PR has got ahead of the ability to deilver

Rather looks like it.

5 minutes ago, corisande said:

A selection of images will be on display in the Spotlight Space on Floor -3 from Thursday 10 August to Sunday 10 September 2023.

Now who do we have who is local/interested in visiting the NPG? [Unfortunately not my part of the world]

M

Edited 11 August , 2023 by Matlock1418

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Depending on how one interprets the sentence, it could indicate that either the 4 persons are in the photos or that they supplied the photos.

Does the backing to the cap badge give any indication to which regiment?
 

Charlie

The badge backing is primarily associated with the King’s Royal Rifle Corps who were one of the two long standing regular rifle regiments.  When the Volunteer Force became aligned with the regulars as part of the Childers Reforms and formed Volunteer Battalions, those allotted with the KRRC took on similar dress features including black badges of various designs with a scarlet backing and facings.  Many of these VBs were moved in 1908 to the newly formed London Regiment where they continued to wear insignia with red backings.  One of these was the 11th London Regiment (Finsbury Rifles).

Edited 11 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[charlie2]

Thank you Frogsmile, it was just a thought.

Charlie

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, charlie2 said:

Thank you Frogsmile, it was just a thought.

Charlie

And a good one.  Unfortunately the badges are very similar, so hence the importance of the regular army good conduct badges as a potential clue.

[corisande]

https://www.npg.org.uk/whatson/display/2023/the-nations-family-album

Covers  Rotimi Odukoya, the first of the 4 quoted above (Rotimi Odukoya, David Abbott, Stephen Illffe and Ian George McLean’s photographs each hold a story unbeknown to the naked eye.) But gives some idea as to what it is all about

I think I have gone far enough down this rabbit hole

[Matlock1418]

17 minutes ago, corisande said:

I think I have gone far enough down this rabbit hole

Not geographically located or interested in nipping into the NPG then? 

I think we have been down other rabbit holes before and had a good time in doing so - with interesting results.

I'm grateful and thank you for you input so far.  [I just wonder if you may yet be later tempted back ??]

M

[corisande]

22 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Not geographically located

Southern Spain is a long way from NPG !

[Matlock1418]

15 minutes ago, corisande said:

Southern Spain is a long way from NPG !

 As I thought.

Then you'd better now start digging that long rabbit hole [to join mine!!?] - you've still got until 10 September to get to the NPG.

They say it is cooler in London than in Spain - might be a relief for you?? 

M