Leutnant Gustav Adolf Horn

[dutchbarge]

Hello,

I'm looking for any information about Leutnant Gustav Adolf Horn (1894-1917).  According to his entry on FrontFlieger.com, "He was an active lieutenant in IR 84 and died in a plane crash near Vesles-et-Caumont (north-east of Laon/France) - his pilot Anton Lehnen also died." I assume from this that he was an observer. His 14-18 Ranglist entry states he was KIA 10.10.17 flying with Flieger Abteilung 10.  His 14 Ranglist entry gives date of commission 22.6.13.

Any help will be most appreciated.

Cheers, Bill

[charlie2]

There are three entries in the casualty lists for him, indicating it was a flying accident rather than enemy action which caused the crash. He is first listed as seriously injured and later listed as having succumed to his injuries.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/7283845

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/7243539

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/5476217

Charlie

 

 

[dutchbarge]

Thank you, Charlie, helpful as ever. I really appreciate the information.  Cheers, Bill

[dutchbarge]

I'm hoping, Charlie, that you can translate this 14-18 Ranglist entry for me............I think he was seconded to Jagdstaffelschule II and guessing that he was killed in training.  Cheers, Bill

[charlie2]

Bill

I agree with Jagdstaffelschule. Killed by enemy action or on active service, abg(estürzt) - crashed 24.1.18 b(ei) - near Saultain.
Karl Anton Heinrich Hugues, he had been wounded in 1915 while with IR84. http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/647222

Charlie
 

 

[dutchbarge]

Hello Charlie,  Thanks again!  Regarding Hugues' 1915 wound...I'm not sure of his rank (Fahnr.)....could it be  Fahnrich (officer cadet)?

[Glenn J]

11 hours ago, dutchbarge said:

Hello,

I'm looking for any information about Leutnant Gustav Adolf Horn (1894-1917).   His 14 Ranglist entry gives date of commission 22.6.13.

Morning Bill,

Gustav Adolf Horn was a graduate of the Main Cadet School in Berlin-Lichterfelde. He was commissioned into the Prussian Army on 22 March 1913 as a Leutnant (provisionally without a Patent) in Infanterie-Regiment von Manstein (Schleswigsches) Nr. 84. He subsequently received his Patent of rank on 16 June 1913 (effective 22 June 1913).

Regards

Glenn 

[Glenn J]

18 minutes ago, dutchbarge said:

Regarding Hugues' 1915 wound...I'm not sure of his rank (Fahnr.)....could it be  Fahnrich (officer cadet)?

Herr Hugues had been promoted to Fähnrich from the rank of Unteroffizier (Fahnenjunker) on 22 May 1915. He was commissioned on 30 July 1915 (provisionally without a Patent).

Regards

Glenn

[charlie2]

If it is of interest Gustav Horn‘s younger brother - Hans Christian Otto - had died of his wounds on 16.8.1917 at Feldlazarett 345 at St.Eloi. He also served with IR84.

Charlie

[dutchbarge]

Hello Charlie and Glenn,

Thank you both for your most appreciated information regarding Hugues and Horn....is there any way to determine when they were seconded/transferred from I.R.84 to the Air Service?  Based upon FrontFlieger.com's mention of his 'pilot' also dying in the crash that killed him I suspect Horn was an observer, but is there any way to tell whether Hugues was a pilot or observer?

Cheers, Bill

[charlie2]

1 hour ago, dutchbarge said:

but is there any way to tell whether Hugues was a pilot or observer?

Bill

I might be completely wrong but wouldn‘t the aircraft at a Jagdstaffelschule be single seaters?
Charlie

[dutchbarge]

 

1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

Bill

I might be completely wrong but wouldn‘t the aircraft at a Jagdstaffelschule be single seaters?
Charlie

Hello Charlie,  Thank you.  Very good point.  Found this by Rammjaeger on Aerodrome.com:

"In general the double seater pilots were retrained for fighters but that process changed in time. In early 1917 a double seater pilot was sent to a KESch (Kampf-Einsitzer-Schule) and after that to a JastaSch (Jagdstaffelschule) with specific programs. As well a good Jasta-leader would check the abilities of the newbee and try to give him additional lessons if necessary (and possibly under-pressure time at the front). Sometimes pilots were also retrained at aviation parks." 

and,

"So for the most of the time the German training system was definitive better, additionally the German fighter pilots were in general – I am not speaking about 1918 – not bloody beginners but experienced double seater pilots who were easier to train than the British newbies. Already the German training for double seater pilots required an amassing of many starts (take-offs) and landings ( a pilot making his third examination could have 150 and more!) under very different conditions – so the common killings in landing accidents etc. were lower than in the British Air Services".

So I would surmise that Hugues was already double seater pilot before he when to Jagdstaffelschule II.  What do you think?

Cheers, Bill

Edited 8 August , 2023 by dutchbarge

[charlie2]

Hi Bill

Neumann‘s „Die deutschen Luftstreitkräfte im Weltkriege“ page 271 answers the question - single seaters. I understand it to be the last stage of training before being posted to an operational unit.

Charlie

[dutchbarge]

Thanks, Charlie.....my high school German is just enough to get the drift.......thank you for being so generous with both your time and expertise...it is very much appreciated.  Cheers, Bill