Flight / Squadron Identification

[ROBPUGH]

Hi all,

I know it's a long shot with these type of queries, but you never know...

Is anyone able to identify the unit in the photograph, or any of the men, that might help identify it?

Thanks

[Tawhiri]

Lots of maternity jackets, but not a lot of wings. I can only see three sets of pilot's wings, and one set of observer's wings, all in the front row.

[Interested]

A wide variety of cap badges.  I wonder why?

[PRC]

Anotated picture attached.

Two, possibly three of the officers seated appear to have medal ribbons. One might be a Military Medal, in which case after 1915 and he'd subsequently been commissioned.
Most of the capbadges and collar badges of the officer selection I've cropped are indistinct due to the low resolution, but one is possibly a castle two thirds surrounded by a laurel wreath. Immediate thoughts would be Dorsetshire Regiment or Suffolk Regiment but it would take a trick of the light \ odd fall of jacket \ cap to hide the sphinx that both regiments have at the top of the badge. Probably one for @FROGSMILE if he wouldn't mind taking a look.

Possibly a wound stripe - odd positioning, but then the officer concerned has retained cuff ranking rather than shoulder ranking so that may explain it.

Not sure if the officer on the left hand end is wearing a ribbon - it seems rather high on the jacket.

No new intellectual property is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owner.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited 5 August , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Anotated picture attached.

Two, possibly three of the officers seated appear to have medal ribbons. One might be a Military Medal, in which case after 1915 and he'd subsequently been commissioned.
Most of the capbadges and collar badges of the officer selection I've cropped are indistinct due to the low resolution, but one is possibly a castle two thirds surrounded by a laurel wreath. Immediate thoughts would be Dorsetshire Regiment or Suffolk Regiment but it would take a trick of the light \ odd fall of jacket \ cap to hide the sphinx that both regiments have at the top of the badge. Probably one for @FROGSMILE if he wouldn't mind taking a look.

Possibly a wound stripe - odd positioning, but then the officer concerned has retained cuff ranking rather than shoulder ranking so that may explain it.

Not sure if the officer on the left hand end is wearing a ribbon - it seems rather high on the jacket.

No new intellectual property is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owner.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Yes the officer far left is wearing a 14 or 14/15 star ribbon Peter, albeit in the old higher up position that was usual before the war.  I’m not sure of his badge, but perhaps Essex Regiment.  Then from left to right after him, RFC, Essex Regiment, Royal West Kent Regiment, Royal Artillery and unclear.  I’m fairly sure that most of the ribbons are also 1914 stars, implying that the photo was taken in 1918, after the first ribbons were made available.

Edited 5 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Interested said:

A wide variety of cap badges.  I wonder why?

That was normal for an operational Royal Flying Corps aviation unit.  They generally comprised ground crew** from the permanent cadre of the RFC and aircrew who were invariably a mixture of officers and SNCOs from the permanent cadre, plus regimental officers from across the army who held RAC certification (qualified fliers) and were undergoing operational flying tours.

Of the survivors among the latter (the attrition rate was high - especially in 1917) some would subsequently transfer to the RFC permanent cadre, and some would return to their parent unit and continue their individual careers.

Several men in the back row wearing regimental insignia other than RFC are very likely to be transferees on probation, which was standard for inter-corps transfers.

** often in a mixture of the two types of uniform, so-called ‘maternity’, and the general pattern of SD.  The field service cap was their preferred headdress and greatly practical for men working on an aerodrome, where it was less likely to be blown off than a cap with a peak and in any case readily stuffed in a pocket when necessary.

Edited 5 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes the officer far left is wearing a 14 or 14/15 star ribbon Peter, albeit in the old higher up position that was usual before the war.  I’m not sure of his badge, but perhaps Essex Regiment.  Then from left to right after him, RFC, Essex Regiment, Royal West Kent Regiment, Royal Artillery and unclear.  I’m fairly sure that most of the ribbons are also stars implying the photo was taken in 1918 after the first ribbons were made available.

Thanks for taking a look - perhaps I should stick to genealogy

If it is 1918, (and no cause to doubt it), then may be the opening months of that year. I can't make out the individual letters on the shoulder titles of the non-flying NCO's, but looking at the general shape of the words it would be suggestive, (to me!), that it is Royal Flying Corps rather than Royal Air Force.

No new intellectual property is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owner.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

42 minutes ago, PRC said:

Thanks for taking a look - perhaps I should stick to genealogy

If it is 1918, (and no cause to doubt it), then may be the opening months of that year. I can't make out the individual letters on the shoulder titles of the non-flying NCO's, but looking at the general shape of the words it would be suggestive, (to me!), that it is Royal Flying Corps rather than Royal Air Force.

No new intellectual property is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owner.

Cheers,
Peter

Yes I’m fairly confident that they are RFC in this case Peter.  From the formation of the RAF on 1st April there was a period when it wasn’t uncommon to see an even greater mix of uniform, as former RNAS personnel were posted in still wearing their old uniform, plus some odd items of the new RAF uniform started appearing, leading overall to what often seemed a sort of dogs breakfast of uniforms.

Edited 5 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Take Two on the Anotated Officer crop

I believe the Royal West Kent Officer is a Lieutenant Colonel. There aren’t going to be many of these. As I believe this relates to the opening months of 1918 I ckecked out the Royal West Kents Officers establishment as shown on the March 1918 British Army Monthly List. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103601582

I was looking for a Lieutenant-Colonel, (or a Major\Captain temporarily acting up) and serving attached to the flying corps. Unfortunately not a single match, only a Captain W.F.MacNeece, D.S.O. who was attached to the flying corps.

So next step was a google search “Colonel Royal West Kent Royal Flying Corps” – and in amongst the hits was William Foster MacNeece.

This included the following for the 25^th May 1915 -

After arriving in Frnace on the 8th of May, getting attacked on the 22nd, 2 Balloon Section finally got down to work today.

Captain William Foster MacNeece and Flight Sub-Lieutenant W. H. E. Campbell ascended near Poperinghe, and spotted for V Corps artillery on a group of German trenches.

Captain MacNeece was born on 21 August 1889 in Aldershot, Surrey, England, the eldest son of Colonel T. F. MacNeece RAMC. He was educated at Cheltenham College, and then at Sandhurst. He was commissioned on 6 February 1909 into The Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) as a second lieutenant. He trained as a pilot gaining RAeC Certificate number 671 on 31 October 1913. On 28 April 1914, he was transferred to the reserve of the Royal Flying Corps.

At the outbreak of War he served with 3 Squadron RFC, conducting air reconnaissance over France. He was seconded to the RNAS on 19 April 1915 for balloon work.
https://airwar19141918.wordpress.com/category/1915/page/21/

And a fuller resume included the details of the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross.

London Gazette 2nd November 1918.

AWARDED THE DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS.

Lieutenant - Colonel William Foster MacNeece, D.S.O. Royal West Kent Regiment,

An exceptionally brave and efficient officer. From 2nd July to 9th August he was in command of a Balloon Wing, and by his energy and personal example inspired all ranks with a spirit of emulation difficult to surpass. During this period he carried out numerous shoots in co-operation with our artillery, and obtained much valuable information for our Intelligence Department. On 9th August his balloon was attacked by an aeroplane and shot down in flames. Lieut.-Col. MacNeece parachuted, but received severe injuries when landing.

(D.S.O. gazetted 1st January, 1917.)
http://www.janetandrichardsgenealogy.co.uk/Lieut-Col%20W%20F%20MacNeece.html

And the man himself, courtesy of Lives of the First World War, in a side by side comparison.

Are they the same man?

Edit 08.26 06/08/2023 to add source  https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/5389067

No new intellectual property is claimed for either composite image I have attached, and all image rights remain with the current owners.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 9 August , 2023 by PRC
1)Typos and formatting 2) More typos

[FROGSMILE]

43 minutes ago, PRC said:

Take Two on the Anotated Officer crop

I believe the Royal West Kent Officer is a Lieutenant Colonel. There aren’t going to be many of these. As I believe this relates to the opening months of 1918 I ckecked out the Royal West Kents Officers establishment as shown on the March 1918 British Army Monthly List. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103601582

I was looking for a Lieutenant-Colonel, (or a Major\Captain temporarily acting up) and serving attached to the flying corps. Unfortunately not a single match, only a Captain W.F.MacNeece, D.S.O. who was attached to the flying corps.

So next step was a google search “Colonel Royal West Kent Royal Flying Kent” – and in amongst the hits was William Foster MacNeece.

This included the following for the 25^th May 1915 -

After arriving in Frnace on the 8th of May, getting attacked on the 22nd, 2 Balloon Section finally got down to work today.

Captain William Foster MacNeece and Flight Sub-Lieutenant W. H. E. Campbell ascended near Poperinghe, and spotted for V Corps artillery on a group of German trenches.

Captain MacNeece was born on 21 August 1889 in Aldershot, Surrey, England, the eldest son of Colonel T. F. MacNeece RAMC. He was educated at Cheltenham College, and then at Sandhurst. He was commissioned on 6 February 1909 into The Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) as a second lieutenant. He trained as a pilot gaining RAeC Certificate number 671 on 31 October 1913. On 28 April 1914, he was transferred to the reserve of the Royal Flying Corps.

At the outbreak of War he served with 3 Squadron RFC, conducting air reconnaissance over France. He was seconded to the RNAS on 19 April 1915 for balloon work.
https://airwar19141918.wordpress.com/category/1915/page/21/

And a fuller resume included the details of the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross.

London Gazette 2nd November 1918.

AWARDED THE DISTINGUISHED FLYING CROSS.

Lieutenant - Colonel William Foster MacNeece, D.S.O. Royal West Kent Regiment,

An exceptionally brave and efficient officer. From 2nd July to 9th August he was in command of a Balloon Wing, and by his energy and personal example inspired all ranks with a spirit of emulation difficult to surpass. During this period he carried out numerous shoots in co-operation with our artillery, and obtained much valuable information for our Intelligence Department. On 9th August his balloon was attacked by an aeroplane and shot down in flames. Lieut.-Col. MacNeece parachuted, but received severe injuries when landing.

(D.S.O. gazetted 1st January, 1917.)
http://www.janetandrichardsgenealogy.co.uk/Lieut-Col%20W%20F%20MacNeece.html

And the man himself, courtesy of Lives of the First World War, in a side by side comparison.

Are they the same man?

No new intellectual property is claimed for either composite image I have attached, and all image rights remain with the current owners.

Cheers,
Peter

Absolutely brilliant work Peter.  I believe that they are the same man.  Chin, mouth, nose and what we can see of the eyes of both individual photos match.

I’m wondering now if the subject photo might well show the balloon wing, as it would explain the very limited brevet and half brevet wings among both officers and SNCOs.

Edited 5 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

William Foster MacNeece continued serving between the War, and in 1927 changed his name to William Foster MacNeece Foster, according to his Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Foster_MacNeece_Foster

Presumably the ongoing service is why I can't find an AIR76 records for him - I was hoping to find that to see what units he served with in 1918.

The RAFWeb website has:-

16 Feb 1916:              Officer Commanding, No 2 (Kite Balloon) Section RNAS.

 5 Dec 1916:               Officer Commanding, 2nd  Balloon Wing RFC.

16-24 Aug 1917:        Officer Commanding (Temporary), No 5 Balloon Company

22 Nov 1917:             Returned to Home Establishment

 2 Jul 1918:                 Posted to No 5 Balloon Wing

 5 Jul 1918:                 Officer Commanding, No 5 Balloon Wing

 9 Aug 1918:               Wounded and admitted to No 61 Casualty Clearing Station (Concussion)

11 Aug 1918:              Admitted to No 8 BRX (Gun shot wound/concussion)

20 Aug 1918:              Sick leave in France

10 Sep 1918:              Sick leave in England

16 Jan 1919:               Staff Officer, 1st Class (Air)
https://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/FosterW.htm

Lots of mentions of him in articles and books on Archive org - I only skimmed them looking for additional pictures but what I could find stemmed from his WW2 service.

Memoirs of an Old Balloonatic may be worth checking out - on page 154 ot talks of MacNeece bring brought home to run the Balloon Depot at Roehampton - so potentially the location of OP photograph. https://archive.org/details/memoirsofoldball0000hodg/page/154/mode/2up?q=MacNeece&view=theater

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, PRC said:

William Foster MacNeece continued serving between the War, and in 1927 changed his name to William Foster MacNeece Foster, according to his Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Foster_MacNeece_Foster

Presumably the ongoing service is why I can't find an AIR76 records for him - I was hoping to find that to see what units he served with in 1918.

The RAFWeb website has:-

16 Feb 1916:              Officer Commanding, No 2 (Kite Balloon) Section RNAS.

 5 Dec 1916:               Officer Commanding, 2nd  Balloon Wing RFC.

16-24 Aug 1917:        Officer Commanding (Temporary), No 5 Balloon Company

22 Nov 1917:             Returned to Home Establishment

 2 Jul 1918:                 Posted to No 5 Balloon Wing

 5 Jul 1918:                 Officer Commanding, No 5 Balloon Wing

 9 Aug 1918:               Wounded and admitted to No 61 Casualty Clearing Station (Concussion)

11 Aug 1918:              Admitted to No 8 BRX (Gun shot wound/concussion)

20 Aug 1918:              Sick leave in France

10 Sep 1918:              Sick leave in England

16 Jan 1919:               Staff Officer, 1st Class (Air)
https://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/FosterW.htm

Lots of mentions of him in articles and books on Archive org - I only skimmed them looking for additional pictures but what I could find stemmed from his WW2 service.

Memoirs of an Old Balloonatic may be worth checking out - on page 154 ot talks of MacNeece bring brought home to run the Balloon Depot at Roehampton - so potentially the location of OP photograph. https://archive.org/details/memoirsofoldball0000hodg/page/154/mode/2up?q=MacNeece&view=theater

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

Given the distinctly relaxed demeanour of the men and the dress and formal appearance of the officers, with canes, a few brown leather gloves and even a folding shooting stick (seat), then I think that Roehampton is distinctly likely Peter.  They are unlikely to have dressed like that within bombing and strafing range in France.

Edited 6 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Revisiting the Lives of the First World website to pick up the link and add it as a source to my previous post, I see the picture is from his Royal Aero Club certificate. Various sources credit that to 1913, including contemporary ones like Flight Magazine and The Aeroplane - relevant editions can be found on Archive Org.

Unfortunately the pictures of him that I could find from the twenties and thirties are all of him in group shots with low resolution and taken at distance - presentations where he is present, conference delegates and the like, or large meetings. There is a bit more detail in images from the 40's but then you have a 20 year gap.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here are the best three additional images I could find.

Sources.

1. Lives of the First World War. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/5389067

2. This thread.

3. Men of the RAF, a 1942 publication, included this drawing dated September 1940. https://archive.org/details/menofraf0000vari/page/94/mode/2up?q=MacNeece+Foster

4. Air Vice Marshall MacNeece Foster, part of the RAF Delegation to Washington, visiting a US Air Force Training Facility. (The RAFWeb dates him with the delegation to roughly 1942-1944). https://www.facebook.com/thunderbirdpilots/photos/air-vice-marshall-fw-mcneece-foster-cb-cbe-dso-dfc-of-the-raf-delegation-in-wash/617888651693803/?paipv=0&eav=AfY1B1KghTL7YRJItbHfhoXKwWpjYSD5QEvMKp3Wq4odqaJHfUrYduKxwokTuA6p22s&_rdr

5. March 1943 Aeronautical Engineering Review https://archive.org/details/sim_aerospace-engineering-1942_1943-03_2_3/page/n5/mode/2up?q=MacNeece+Foster

No new intellectual property is claimed for this montage, and all image rights remain with the current owners.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 7 August , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[FROGSMILE]

I think you’ve done a brilliant job of identifying this officer and very likely his unit too.  Personally I’ve no doubt that it’s the same officer.

[ROBPUGH]

Hi Peter and Frogsmile, Thankyou so very very much.

I'm astounded at the amount of research you have done on this Peter, I can't thank you enough.

You have definitely opened the door for me to be able to carry on the research.

To start, I have been able to find a picture of him on his wedding day.

This was published in The Sketch of 22 August 1928 which I obtained via findmypast.

 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, ROBPUGH said:

You have definitely opened the door for me to be able to carry on the research.

Glad to help. Hope you don't mind but I've added his wedding day picture to the comparison to provide the link between the two wars. Towards the end of his life he was Mayor of Oxford, so there are a few pictures online from that period as well.

No new intellectual property is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owners.

I did try going on to to look for the Essex Regiment man sat on what is Lt.Col. MacNeece's right hand - a position traditionally occupied by the adjutant in such formal group pictures. I was looking at Essex Regiment Captains and Lieutenants in the British Army March 1918 Monthly List. Unfortunately there were just too many shown as attached to the Flying Corps and I ran out of steam.

Early on in the search I found Captain A.J.B. Waller, with seniority from 1st October 1915. There is an AIR76 record for Ambrose John Rayner Waller ex Essex Regiment. Qualified for 1914 Mons Star and Croix de Guerre Belge. In December 1916 he had been appointed a Balloon unit Adjutant. Medically repatriated to the UK January 1918.

However I think judging from the picture here that we can rule him out https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/7693439

An alternative route to identifying the officers present might be the 1918 monthly returns for 1 Balloon Training Depot, Roehampton, which is held at the National Archive. Unfortunately not digitised so would be a question of visiting or requesting a copy. Never had cause myself to do either, but general advice on the forum seems to be to use a private researcher rather than the Archive copying service. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4079973

Can't guarantee it will name officers attached, but at least the adjutant may have prepared it.

Heres a previous thread on the Depot at Roehamption, which contains links to earlier threads -

Apparently there was a monthly newsletter which regularly featured photographs of the officers and the men as well as the training course attendees..

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

On 06/08/2023 at 01:25, PRC said:

Memoirs of an Old Balloonatic may be worth checking out - on page 154 ot talks of MacNeece bring brought home to run the Balloon Depot at Roehampton - so potentially the location of OP photograph. https://archive.org/details/memoirsofoldball0000hodg/page/154/mode/2up?q=MacNeece&view=theater

“Memoirs of an old balloonatic” by Goderic Hodges not only mentions MacNeece was in charge of the Depot but goes on to state he had brought “Higman” back with him as second in command. (Page 154-55).

The author had served under Higman when he was in command of 25 Section in Flanders. (Page 55). He is mentioned many times in the text but I didn’t readily spot a first name.

A possible from the MiC record is a Henry Philip Lawton Higman, originally a Second Lieutenant in the Royal Engineers and subsequently a Major in the RAF.

When you compare the details about him in “Memoirs of an old balloonatic” with the details on his AIR76 record it is fairly clear they are the same man. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8272240

Page 52 “I was told to go to No.25 Balloon Section. commanded by Higman” Air76 notes posted 25 Kite Balloon section on the 1^st January 1917 and appointed Balloon Commander 29^th January 1917.

Page 55. “The commander of 25 was Higman, a big chap, a model of devotion and efficiency. In peactime he had been in charge of the telephone and telegraph system of a big South American railway.” The AIR76 section “Special Qualifications” notes Henry Higman was an Electrical Engineer. Special experience with High Tension Power and sub-station work, also Railway Telegraphs.” The “Occupation in Civil Life” notes employment between 1907 and 1914 in Buenos Aires and Paraguay, most recently with the Asuncion Tramway, Light + Power Company.

Page 56. “Higman and I huddled over the little stove in the mess-hut, in all our flying clothes, except for the long-boots. I read The Times, he read Spanish novels.” The AIR76 section “Special Qualifications” notes Henry Higman had a thorough knowledge of Spanish.

Page 77.  (After the author was placed in command of 32 Section) -  “Higman was leaving 25 to take command of No.2 Company. No. 32 was in his Company. We should not be separated.” AIR76 shows 6^th Company May 1917 and a Flight Commander from the 4^th April 1917.

Page 128. “Higman had a fine face with features of the type commonly described as Roman.”

His AIR76 record shows him at a Balloon Training Wing, (No 1 BTW was also based at Roehampton alongside the Depot) from December 1917 to June 1918. He was a Balloon Company Commander and then a Squadron Commander during this time. He was shown as serving with the Devon R.E. (T.F) attached R.A.F. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8272240

So far no comparison picture but looking at the original group picture, could this man be a Royal Engineer?

 

No new IP is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owners.

His position in the group photograph doesn’t suggest second in command but Goderic Hodges may have just been making an assumption that was Higmans’ role at the Depot under MacNeece.

There is nothing in the AIR76 record to indicate that Higman ever had reason to wear a wound stripe, but then they were only created after the RAF came into being and were then populated with selective highlights of the prior career. And of course the mark on the left forearm of the officer in the picture that I’m interpreting as a wound stripe may be an error by me.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

“Memoirs of an old balloonatic” by Goderic Hodges not only mentions MacNeece was in charge of the Depot but goes on to state he had brought “Higman” back with him as second in command. (Page 154-55).

 

The author had served under Higman when he was in command of 25 Section in Flanders. (Page 55). He is mentioned many times in the text but I didn’t readily spot a first name.

 

A possible from the MiC record is a Henry Philip Lawton Higman, originally a Second Lieutenant in the Royal Engineers and subsequently a Major in the RAF.

 

When you compare the details about him in “Memoirs of an old balloonatic” with the details on his AIR76 record it is fairly clear they are the same man. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8272240

 

Page 52 “I was told to go to No.25 Balloon Section. commanded by Higman” Air76 notes posted 25 Kite Balloon section on the 1^st January 1917 and appointed Balloon Commander 29^th January 1917.

Page 55. “The commander of 25 was Higman, a big chap, a model of devotion and efficiency. In peactime he had been in charge of the telephone and telegraph system of a big South American railway.” The AIR76 section “Special Qualifications” notes Henry Higman was an Electrical Engineer. Special experience with High Tension Power and sub-station work, also Railway Telegraphs.” The “Occupation in Civil Life” notes employment between 1907 and 1914 in Buenos Aires and Paraguay, most recently with the Asuncion Tramway, Light + Power Company.

Page 56. “Higman and I huddled over the little stove in the mess-hut, in all our flying clothes, except for the long-boots. I read The Times, he read Spanish novels.” The AIR76 section “Special Qualifications” notes Henry Higman had a thorough knowledge of Spanish.

 

Page 77.  (After the author was placed in command of 32 Section) -  “Higman was leaving 25 to take command of No.2 Company. No. 32 was in his Company. We should not be separated.” AIR76 shows 6^th Company May 1917 and a Flight Commander from the 4^th April 1917.

Page 128. “Higman had a fine face with features of the type commonly described as Roman.”

 

His AIR76 record shows him at a Balloon Training Wing, (No 1 BTW was also based at Roehampton alongside the Depot) from December 1917 to June 1918. He was a Balloon Company Commander and then a Squadron Commander during this time. He was shown as serving with the Devon R.E. (T.F) attached R.A.F. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8272240

 

So far no comparison picture but looking at the original group picture, could this man be a Royal Engineer?

 

 

 

 

No new IP is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owners.

His position in the group photograph doesn’t suggest second in command but Goderic Hodges may have just been making an assumption that was Higmans’ role at the Depot under MacNeece.

There is nothing in the AIR76 record to indicate that Higman ever had reason to wear a wound stripe, but then they were only created after the RAF came into being and were then populated with selective highlights of the prior career. And of course the mark on the left forearm of the officer in the picture that I’m interpreting as a wound stripe may be an error by me.

 

Cheers,
Peter

 

Unfortunately not Peter, I did consider RE for the two officers I was unsure/unclear about and also for the non-RFC other ranks in subject photo, but in the case of the officers I was immediately able to rule that corps out because, along with the artillery, it favoured the ordnance originated** “fired grenade proper”# (with honour scroll) as it’s collar badge.  As you can see they are quite distinctive.

**from their shared history under control of the Board of Ordnance.

# the heraldic description.

 

Edited 7 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Unfortunately not Peter, I did consider RE for the two officers I was unsure/unclear about and also for the non-RFC other ranks in subject photo, but in the case of the officers I was immediately able to rule that corps out because, along with the artillery, it favoured the ordnance originated** “fired grenade proper”# (with honour scroll) as it’s collar badge.

It was the Devon TF that planted the seed of doubt in my mind. Given the period that MacNeece and Higman were stationed at Roehampton from the end of 1917 were fairly closley aligned,  you would have thought Higman would be present. Of course could be all sorts of reasons why he isn't - and that's of course assuming the MacNeece identification is correct.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, PRC said:

It was the Devon TF that planted the seed of doubt in my mind. Given the period that MacNeece and Higman were stationed at Roehampton from the end of 1917 were fairly closley aligned,  you would have thought Higman would be present. Of course could be all sorts of reasons why he isn't - and that's of course assuming the MacNeece identification is correct.

Cheers,
Peter

I omitted to say that the officer in the photo who you have focused upon is indeed wearing a wound stripe and almost certainly has a 1914 Star ribbon as the first war medal to be made available in 1918.  Hopefully it might yet still be used to aid identification, but unfortunately his badges remain stubbornly unclear.

[ROBPUGH]

Thanks again guys for your continued interest in this photo mystery.

I think it's time I added something as I'm feeling left out

The photograph is of the post card type and size, with Post Card printed on the back, and underneath this, Carte Postale.

As this is French, I assume that means the photo was taken in France, possibly between July and August 1918, since there are several men sporting overseas service chevrons, and this is when MacNeece returned to France?

Could this 'Essex Regiment' Officer actually be in The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment?

I've enhanced the photo as best I can.

 

A couple of comparison photo's.

Left photo from www.ipswichwarmemorial.co.uk

Right photo from www.grandadswar.org

 

Edited 7 August , 2023 by ROBPUGH

[ROBPUGH]

Loyal North Lancashire Cap and Collar badges,

 

Edited 7 August , 2023 by ROBPUGH

[ROBPUGH]

I have tried to enhance / sharpen these two Officers to bring out the detail.

 

Edited 7 August , 2023 by ROBPUGH

[PRC]

1 hour ago, ROBPUGH said:

The photograph is of the post card type and size, with Post Card printed on the back, and underneath this, Carte Postale.

As this is French, I assume that means the photo was taken in France,

Standard layout and with "Postcard" on top is more likely to mean of UK origin.

1 hour ago, ROBPUGH said:

possibly between July and August 1918, since there are several men sporting overseas service chevrons, and this is when MacNeece returned to France?

State of the foliage behind them would tend to argue against that time period and men could be found serving in the UK wearing the chevrons as a result of earlier overseas service. In this particular case I'm actually struggling to see any overseas service chevrons - just flaws on the photograph and some odd looking folds on lower sleeves.

Here's the example photograph used on our parent site, The Long, Long Trail, to illustrate how the overseas service chevrons should look.

Image courtesy https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/tips-for-interpreting-photographs-of-men-in-uniform/whats-that-on-his-sleeve-an-overseas-service-chevron/

Not sure about the capbadges - the comparison pictures are actually more persuasive than the badge pictures
Will be interested to see what @FROGSMILE's view is.

I'm still inclined to go with the rank of Captain on that man. It would be odd to have two Lieutenant Colonels sat side by side if it is a unit picture. On a slightly different thought, MacNeece was in command of No 1 Balloon Training Depot, while Higman was attached to the (No.1) Balloon Training Wing. Both units were based at Roehamption. If this was a picture of the Depot Staff it might explain why Higman appears to be absent, (and why a second Lieutenant-Colonel wouldn't be present).

There are all sorts of reasons why the picture might have been taken and it's pure speculation on my part, but given the state of the foliage I'm womdering if it was taken to commemorate the birth of the Royal Air Force.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, ROBPUGH said:

Thanks again guys for your continued interest in this photo mystery.

I think it's time I added something as I'm feeling left out

The photograph is of the post card type and size, with Post Card printed on the back, and underneath this, Carte Postale.

As this is French, I assume that means the photo was taken in France, possibly between July and August 1918, since there are several men sporting overseas service chevrons, and this is when MacNeece returned to France?

Could this 'Essex Regiment' Officer actually be in The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment?

I've enhanced the photo as best I can.

 

A couple of comparison photo's.

Left photo from www.ipswichwarmemorial.co.uk

Right photo from www.grandadswar.org

 

I think you’re right Rob, that’s a much better image of that officer now and I agree that he’s definitely Loyal North Lancashire Regiment and not Essex.  Not only are the collar badges clearer, but the cap badge is definable too.  He is indeed a captain.

Edited 8 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE