Markings on an Pattern 14

[MRB]

Hello everyone,

First post on the forums. Thanks for having me.

I was given a Pattern 14 that was my aunt's father's. He was not a soldier but simply had bought the rifle at some point. It sat neglected for years as I am to understand it. It has been partially sporterised with the wood cut down, and a non original barrel band on the front. They actually left the rear barrel band on despite removing the wood which is nice.

Anyway, I have found out so far that is a Winchester model, and probably produced in 1917 based on the late serial number. But aside from that I am having difficulty tracking down some more detailed history of the rifle. Particularly the small star stamped in two places on the barrel and a star imprinted on the stock as well. I thought this was due to the rifle being made in the states, but I am not sure as it was also issued to the British according to the other markings. I was hoping someone here might be able to trace its history a bit more. 

Edited 5 August , 2023 by MRB

[MRB]

A couple more pictures since I could not fit it in the first post.

 

Thanks for any input.

[4thGordons]

Is there also a star or asterisk on the knob of the bolt? Also - have a look at the UNDERSIDE of the stock (wood) behind the trigger guard - you might find a six pointed star (and possibly a letter) stamped there also.

As you say - your rifle is a Winchester built Pattern 1914 MkI*  (Mark one star)

The asterisk/star was used by the British to designate modifications which were not significant enough to warrant a whole mark change (eg from MkI to MkII) but nonetheless were important.  On the pattern 1914 it was the enlargement of bolt lugs (and also obviously the recesses in the receiver).

In terms of date of production - you should actually be able to see the date on the lower part of the left side of the barrel in this picture

it is partially visible covered by the handguard ring - -it looks like it is (and most likely should be '17) indicating the barrel was produced in 1917.

BTW the other stampings visible in this picture are proof marks, both the original military ones (the crossed pennants) and British civilian proof markings indicating it passed through the civilian gun trade at some point in its history

The serial number as you say, is quite high. If I am reading the tables correctly indicate it was accepted by British inspectors in the middle of June 1917 (production at Winchester ended at the end of June with production at 235353.

Your rifle has indeed been "sporterized" (ie had the wood removed/cut down to make it lighter and handier as a hunting rifle) this was very common from 1930s-1980s when surplus bolt action rifles were very cheap.  It is possible to find replacement wood and return rifles to their original format but it is getting quite expensive and you will be left with a rifle you spent more on that it would sell for so it is rather a labour of love.  This is what it would have looked like.

 

Stocks are available if you hunt around and the handguards, and metal parts are pretty easy to find

If you decide to go that route be wary of Indian used P14 stocks because a lot of them have been taken from Drill Purpose rifles and have a large circular chunk of wood cut out of them - sellers often get creative with their pictures and manage to obscure or not photograph that part (or not mention in in the description -- but to be fair many may not know)

Winchester were considered by the British to be Superior to the other two producers and only Winchester rifles were used in conversions to marksman (fine sighted) or sniper (telescopically sited) rifles.

P14 rifles (some sniper rifles aside possibly) did not see front line service in WWI (ironically by the time they came online in sufficient numbers SMLE production was meeting the need) however they were used in training and were reactivated for second line (and even limited front line) use in WWII. They were also supplied in quite large numbers inter-war to Baltic states and post WWII to Greece.

Here is a pic of a P14 in training use in the UK during WWI

 

Hope that helps.

Chris