East Miraumont Road - Does anyone know where it is? Not far from Miraumont Communal Cemetery

[GMB]

Hi All,

I have just put together my latest write up on four brothers from Merthyr Tydfil, with two of them KIA. I have recently found some published letters in my local newspaper which states;

"He was killed while we were trying to get the guns up into action, and the road was being heavily shelled; in fact, we had a very rough time. He was buried a few hundred yards outside Petit Miraumont, and we had a cross put up for him before we left. His personal effects were sent to 3rd Echelon, and will be forwarded on to you. His grave is on the East Miramount Road. Petit Miraumont is about ten miles from Albert........."

 

Does anyone know where East Miraumont Road is please? I have been having a nose on google and would take a guess that it is the road running east from Petit Miraumont, being the 'D151 Rue Herier' that runs past the cross road with 'D107 Rue du Marais'? This is a complete guess. Does anyone know this area at all?

 

Cheers

Gavin

Edited 2 August , 2023 by GMB

[dickaren]

It is the D107 that runs south to Courcelette. Adanac cemetery is on the east side of it

Richard

[GMB]

Great thanks Richard - so if any bodies were buried along the road, they would more than likely be moved to Adanac, instead of Miraumont?

Gavin

 

 

[brianmorris547]

Richard is quite right.

I researched the Bolton Artillery, 211 Bde RFA of 42 Div some years ago. 42 Div RFA were involved in the action there in August 1918. This map is from the WD of 42 Div HQ GS and shows the W Miraumont Rd running from Petit Miraumont to Courcelette through R 17 and the E Miraumont Rd running through R 18.

Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2646.

Brian

[GMB]

Thanks Brian, the map really helps.

The reason I ask is I am looking in a lad from Merthyr who was KIA on 3rd March 1917, as part of D Bty, 83rd Bde, RFA. 

Now the letter I posted originally shows he was buried a "few hundred yards outside of Petit Miraumont", along with another Gunner who died from the same shell.

There are two other lads from D Bty, 83rd Bde who died on the same day, who I can assume would have been buried in the same place. All 4 of them according to CWGC are commemorated on Thiepval, but there are 4 unidentified British soldiers buried in Miraumont Communal Cemetery. What are the chances these are the 4 unidentified......

That is why I was curious if they would have possibly been taken to Adanac instead.

Gavin

[dickaren]

Hi Gavin,

I believe the British burials in the communal cemetery were mostly made by the Germans. I would check the COG returns for Adanac to see if any were made from grid references near to where you believe the men were originally buried.

Richard

[GMB]

Is there an easier way of viewing COG forms than individually clicking on a CWGC entry to see if a GOC is attached to that record?  I can't see a document repository that has one for Adanac in one place......hopefully I am wrong. I don't fancy going through over 1000 records if I can help it.

Gavin

[WhiteStarLine]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

Is there an easier way of viewing COG forms

Gavin, the late Richard Laughton put these up and you can download all the COG-BR for Adanac then cycle through the 116 images to get a picture of the dispersal.  Here are the 1st half dozen pages, plotted to show that they were retrieved from a fair distance away.

[jay dubaya]

WhiteStarLine beat me to it,

Just beware - the CoG-BRs are not in Row/Plot order and often there are some missing and need searching for - I haven't had cause to look at Adanac as yet so can't help with this particular set. Let me know if you need another pair of eyes...

Also worth bearing in mind the concentration and reburial of the dead was very time sensitive and as such reburials can have taken place at another cemetery.

 

PS - there is an add on program for Mozilla Firefox called 'DownThemAll' which allows batch downloading giving us access to the burial reports using our own search parameters, ie; document number blocks for particular cemeteries.

Edited 3 August , 2023 by jay dubaya

[GMB]

Thank you both, that has certainly made my life a hell of a lot easier!

Having quickly gone through, I cannot see any refs linked to what I am looking for, however, this is my first time going into this much detail - if anyone has a quick 2mins, could you pull TrenchMapper and see what reference you get please?

If taking the letter from Lieut Atkinson as literal (and I have no reason not to), a few hundred yards outside of Petit Miraumont would place it within the red circle (I believe). I have come up with a Ref between 57d.R.5.a.70/81 to 57d.R.5.c.87/89

I am hoping I am onto something here.....

Gavin

[brianmorris547]

Gavin

There is a better 1:10,000 map in the February 1917 War Diary of the Commander Royal Artillery 18 Div. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2020.

There are also notes of medical arrangements in the attached Administrative Instructions. 

I looked at the WD of the ADMS RAMC. There is a location report of the RAMC Units on 01/03/1917. Nothing in the WD of 18 Div A&QMG.

Brian

[dickaren]

@GMB

Glad the others were able to help with the COG's. Would check any exhumations from R5,6,11 and 12 to cover the "few hundred yards" in the letter. If no luck it might be worth checking other local concentration cemeteries.

Richard

[jay dubaya]

It’s also worth remembering when a casualty may have been found/exhumed. Many of the cemeteries were closed to further burials around the time the responsibility was passed from the army to the IWGC in September 1921. As a result of this a body could be buried some distance from its battlefield grave at the nearest ‘open’ cemetery.

I’m happy to have a look if you’d like to supply a name and unit.

[GMB]

Thanks very much for the map Brian - I would assume the burial wouldn't be any further than the South Miraumont trench, but who knows. I am certainly intrigued at the moment.

Richard/Jay - thanks both, appreciate the help.  I will expand the search for both the co-ordinates and further cemeteries. I didn't realise some of the cemeteries were 'closed', but that makes sense.

The soldier in question is Bdr Edward James, 13333, D Bty, 83rd Bde, RFA, who was KIA on 3rd March 1917. As per the article, he was killed with another gunner by a german shell, which would be Gunner William Ellis Holman, 155022.

The two other lads from D Bty who were KIA on 3rd March were Driver John William Smith, 50384 & Driver George Alrich Myers, 81529.

Again assuming (which is a dangerous thing), I would think that all 4 were buried at the same place (this being the few hundred yards from Petit Miraumont). All four as per the CWGC are commemorated on Thiepval, but I have no idea if the bodies have even been found or if they are marked as an UBS in a cemetery.

The 83rd Bde WD hardly gives any information for the 3rd March sadly.

Edward was 1 of 4 brothers from Merthyr who served, with one brother, Richard James, 57152, 16th btn RWF, was KIA on the attack at Bouzincourt Ridge on 22nd April 1918.

Gavin

Edited 3 August , 2023 by GMB

[jay dubaya]

A couple of hundred yards outside the village on the east Petit Miraumont to Courcelette Road puts us within 57D.R.5.d - most of these graves were concentrated to Queens Cemetery, Bucquoy. Having had a quick look through the CoG-BRs there's a couple of likely candidates for location - see below (note 'no bodies found' - those named have Special Memorials). edit - there's also two gunners from D/83 buried here, KiA 16th March 1917 recovered from 57D.R.5.a

Around 750 yards puts us within 57D.R.11.b - these concentrations can be found at Adanac, Regina Trench and Queens Cemeteries - there may be others worth checking for the later (IWGC) concentrations - London Cemetery springs to mind... I'll have another look later.

(CWGC - doc2621577)

Edited 3 August , 2023 by jay dubaya

[GMB]

Thanks Jay, I don't think I would have found that if you hadn't highlighted it.

Looks like I will be doing some digging through CoGs over the weekend to see if there are any hits. I will go back through Adanac as well.

Fingers crossed - although it is like finding a needle in a haystack I am sure!

Gavin

Edited 4 August , 2023 by GMB

[jay dubaya]

18 minutes ago, GMB said:

Fingers crossed - although it is like finding a needle in a haystack I am sure!

Especially since there may not even be a needle in that particular haystack… 

Too much time looking burial reports will send you square eyed, will send you down rabbit holes and will illuminate many, many more graves to look at.

[GMB]

Will see what pops up, if anything.

It's a shame I can't find a CoG for Miraumont Communal - I would like to see where the 4 UBS were found.

[jay dubaya]

There were no concentrations to Miraumont CC post Armistice. The 4 unknows (2 officers and 2 ORs) casualties of 2nd July 1916, indeed looking at the GRRFs and the DoD recorded, all 14-18 casualties buried here were laid to rest by the Germans.

[GMB]

Quick update;

We know they are not at Miraumont, but can confirm they are also not at Adanac or Queen's Cemetery, Bucquoy. The hunt continues........any obvious cemeteries to look at next?

[jay dubaya]

Caterpillar Valley, London Cem & Ex and Serre Road No.2 for post army/IWGC handover are three that I'm famiiar with.