Who Were the Six VC Coffin Bearers

[Glengarry1950]

Gentlemen,

I am currently in the process of cataloguing and researching the archives in the Regimental Museum prior to them going into storage as major refurbishment of the whole museum is undertaken next year. The museum recently took possession of a number of items, which are priceless to the Regiment, including original documents belonging to CSM John Kendrick Skinner VC, DCM, CdG, we have his VC and his full medal entitlement.

The aim, along with his medals and all the new acquired items is to have a dedicated display to him in the new refurbished museum.

John Skinner was a remarkable soldier lied about his age to join the regiment at 16 and by the out break of the Great War has seen 14 years’ service, including the Boer War, he was hard working intelligent with a tendency to be reckless, the wounds he suffered (7) were as frequent as his demotions for ignoring regulations or drinking. Nevertheless, his Army record praises him as very intelligent and had working infantryman.

To cut to the chase CSM John Skinner VC was one of the most celebrated hero’s of his time, his luck finally ran out when he was shot and killed by a sniper on 17 March 1918 while trying to rescue a wounded soldier. His body was recovered, the Welsh padre officiated his full-scale military funeral in Vlamertinghe, Belgium and it is thought to be unique for being the only occasion on which six Victoria Cross holders acted as poll-bearers bore him from the gun-carriage , it was quoted at the time that one was a Pte and another was a General, all from 29^th Division.

 I am attempting to find out is if possible through the Forum if anyone knows the names of the six VC poll-bearers?

Additionally, Looking to find out if there is a photograph or illustration of the event, I seem to remember seeing a sketch somewhere in the past, but it alludes where?

Kind regards

Hiram

[Knotty]

Good evening Hiram

I remembered reading something about his funeral earlier in the year, and didn’t take long to find what I was after.

This from 'VC's of the First World War: Passchendaele 1917' by Stephen Snelling [Sutton Publishing 1998] pp93.

'...There in pouring rain, one of the most remarkable funerals ever witnessed on the Western Front took place with six VC holders from the 29th Division - including James Ockenden, William Grimabldeston, Joseph Lister, and John Molyneux - acting as pallbearers...'

James Ockenden - Sergeant, Royal Dublin Fusiliers, also held MM.
William Grimbaldeston - CQMS, King's Own Scottish Borderers.
Joseph Lister - Sergeant, Lancashire Fusiliers.
John Molyneux - Sergeant, Royal Fusiliers.

That the names of four of the six bearers, sorry I cannot find any more reference in the book to the others, hope that helps in your research.

As an aside Is there any truth in the story that there were a further 3 VC holders in attendance at his funeral?

John

[Colin W Taylor]

I would feel comfortable betting Brigadier General Bernard Freyberg was one of those there, as he commanded a brigade in 29th Division. His personal account held in the National Archives makes no mention of the event in March 1918 though.

Colin

[Glengarry1950]

Hi John,

Thank you very much for your speedy reply, I had a feeling that C/Sgt Grimbaldeston might have been there as he won his VC in the same action as CSM Skinner, but I was not sure if he had returned to the front. 

The report I have written by a Reporter stated that there were 6 VC holders from a Pte soldier to a General, in case I have only the Pte and the General both of 29 Division to locate.

Once again thank you John.

Warm wishes

Hiram

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the information on Brig Gen Freyberg, it is a pity that his papers do not record the event but not unexpected in the grand scheme of things then, I will use this to deepen my search for the two missing VC holders.

Thanks

Hiram

[Colin W Taylor]

Lt Col Sherwood-Kelly and Captain Gee had won VCs with the division in late 1917; not sure if they were still serving with the formation in early 1918.

The ADMS for the division, H E M Douglas was also a Boer War VC winner.

Edited 26 July , 2023 by Colin W Taylor

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Colin,

Sorry I did not answer sooner, I think I have all the names now Major General Bernard Freyberg and I believe the Pte was Pte Frederick George Dancox Worcester Regiment who won his VC on 26 Nov 1917 while in 29 Division.

To answers Knotty's question there was believe to be three other VC holder in attendance:

Sergeant Charles Spackman, Border Regiment

Sergeant Edward Mott, Border Regiment

I do not have the name of the third.

The weather was quite poor with pouring rain, however, the coffin was brought on a Gun-Carriage for 17 miles drawn by a magnificent team of horses and thence carried and laid in the grave. 

The reason I am gathering all this information as I intent to recreate the event on canvas in oils, I am now looking for photographs from WW1 of a Gun-Carriage with a team of horses, my question about that is, I assume a team is four horses? any pictures would much appreciated.

warm wishes

Hiram

[Knotty]

Hi Hiram

According to the VC winners records, Frederick George Dancox of the Worcester Regiment was awarded his VC for actions on 9/10/1917, gazetteered 26/11/1917, and was subsequently killed in action on 30/11/1917 and so could not have been at Skinners funeral.

John

 

[Glengarry1950]

Hi John,

Thanks for that, I have a copy of the 29th Division records and on his record it fails to mention that he was subsequently KIA. Also I have since discovered that A/CQMS William Grimbaldeston was posted to our Regimental Depot at Berwick-upon-Tweed so highly unlikely that he travelled to Belgium for the funeral.

Unfortunately, I think the names of the VC holders present will remain speculative unless concrete evidence can be produced. We have a list of a number of VC holders from 29 Division serving on the 19th March 1918 on the Western Front, but we do not know for sure who were there. Work in progress.

Cheers

Hiram 

[michaeldr]

The officiating Chaplain at the funeral was the Rev Kenelm Swallow MC (http://www.allanglens.com/images/newsletters/Sept2017.pdf)
and his personal archive may have survived

Quote from https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/legacy-of-a-war-hero-3154275 

"In the week when the city remembers fallen war heroes, Coventry Preparatory School has uncovered a wealth of documents relating to the First World War and the school's early history.
The personal archives of the school's founder, the Rev Kenelm Swallow, were found in a box in the attic by current head Nicholas Lovell. … … … 

… … …  Mr Swallow served as a chaplain in the First World War in France and the find contains remarkable original photos of everyday life in the trenches, as well as his medals, including a Military Cross won in 1918 for returning to "no man's land" five times to rescue wounded men.
It also contains artifacts such as his officer's book, which contains details about men killed in action and their funeral services at which he often officiated.
(my emphasis)

Coventry Prep School appears to have closed (see https://get-information-schools.service.gov.uk/Establishments/Establishment/Details/103746 )
However, this school is described as a successor institution [https://kinghenrys.co.uk/] and perhaps they have inherited the Rev Swallow's archive?????

[michaeldr]

See also 

 

[butler]

16 hours ago, Glengarry1950 said:

The reason I am gathering all this information as I intent to recreate the event on canvas in oils, I am now looking for photographs from WW1 of a Gun-Carriage with a team of horses, my question about that is, I assume a team is four horses? any pictures would much appreciated.

A team was 6 horses at the start of the war but dropped to 4 towards the end of the war, I believe, to provide horses for the US Army, I don't know the exact date of the change

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Butler,

I have since found out that Skinners Gun-Carriage was drawn by four black horses,

Cheers

Hiram

[Glengarry1950]

Michaeldr,

Thank you for the info the book was for sale on Amazon how out of stock, I will have to search on various forms and see if someone as a copy and look up and see it the event is mentioned in any detail.

Cheers

Hiram

[Glengarry1950]

Gentlemen,

Sent an enquiry to the National Library of Scotland who held a copy of the said book on Reverent Swallow MC war diaries, here is the comprehensive and in-depth reply I received from Robbie at the NLS. Unfortunately Harkins would appear not to have used all the information contained in Swallows War diaries which is disappointing. However, if the original diaries can be located there may be a chance to resolve this once and for all, fingers crossed someone knows their location.

Cheers,

Hiram

 

Thank you for your enquiry to the National Library of Scotland, Hiram.

As requested, we have checked our copy of Trevor Harkin's book on Arthur Kenelm Swallow but I'm afraid it doesn't have the information you're looking for. 

The Legacy of the Reverend Kenelm Swallow MC by Trevor Harkin does not completely republish Swallow's diaries, but merely draws extracts and photographs from them. Disappointingly, the events of March 1918 are covered in the merest of detail on Pages 61-62 and, although C.S.M. Skinner's funeral is mentioned, it only quotes from the 29th Divisional history rather than from any account found within Swallow's diaries.

There is another reference to Skinner in the book; it appears in a section called A Padre's Job Described which was apparently a description "taken during an interview with Regimental Sergeant Major Dick Bradbury, MC (2/6th Royal Warwickshire Regiment) who interviewed and spoke to veterans noting their experiences". Skinner's funeral is referenced on Page 76:

Funeral of a V.C.
The most heart-breaking part of my job, of cause, was the burying. Some were hardly that. One indeed, was a funeral proper, it was that of the famous Company Sergeant Major John Kendrick Skinner, V.C. (The King's Own Scottish Borderers), of whom General Dir Brauvoir de Lisle spoke in his address at the 29th Division Memorial service on the Dunchurch Road last July. His comrades recovered his body after his had been shot, which I am sorry to say, that they were unable to do the same for the man, who rushed out from the safety of his trench, to try to save him and was also killed. At the funeral of C.S.M. Kendrick, six other V.C. holders, all of whom were of the same 29th Division, bore him from the gun carriage to his grave in the cemetery at Vlamertinghe, Belgium. One of the bearers of Sergeant-Major Skinner was a private soldier and another was a General. 

THE STORY OF THE 29th DIVISION: a record of gallant deeds by Captain Stair Gillon (late King's Own Scottish Borderers, 29th Division) does refer to Skinner winning the V.C. during its account of the Division's assault on Langemarck in August 1917 between Pages 129-131. It also makes reference to his death attempting to bring in a wounded man from No Man's Land in March 1918, and includes the following attributed to Swallow:

The Rev Kenelm Swallow writes, "I happened to be up at his Company Headquarters a few hours before the dawn wqhen he was killed, and subsequently officiated at his most remarkable funeral at Vlamertinghe in the pouring rain, when his body was brought to the grave on a gun carriage drawn by a magnificent team of horses, and thence carried and laid in the grave by six brother V.C.s, all of the 29th Division". 

The above quote from Gillon's Divisional history appears to be the same used by Harkin in the book on Swallow.
As well as 29th Division's history, Stair Agnew Gillon (1877-1954) also wrote a Regimental history, The K.O.S.B. in the Great War. In it he does recount Skinner's actions at Langemarck but only makes a short reference to his funeral:

The next tour was marked by an outstanding calamity. C.S.M. Skinner, V.C., D.C.M., was sniped on 17th March. He was given a great funeral on the 19th at Vlamertinghe with six V.C. pall-bearers. He had been wounded eight times in his career and seemed incapable of considering his personal safety, or of understanding how anyone could enjoy a fight less than he did. He was certainly one of the most remarkable men in the British Army. [Page 213]

There is an article about CSM Skinner on Page 65 of The Borderers' Chronicle (Vol. 13, No. 2 [30th June 1938]), but it just repeats the claim that he was buried with an "impressive funeral at Vlamertinghe, with six V.C. pall bearers" and offers no further information as to the pall bearers' identity. 
Unfortunately the copy of the Battalion's War Diary available through the National Archives at Kew doesn't offer any detail about the funeral party either: 

HASLER - 19th - Battalion resting and cleaning up. Funeral of late C.S.M. SKINNER, V.C., D.C.M., in the afternoon at VLAMERTINGHE Cemetery. Heavily shelled during day and and in the evening with H.E. and Shrapnel. 4 O.R. wounded. 4 O.R. sick evacuated. [Ref: WO 95/2304/1]

We have checked other printed sources but nothing was forthcoming as to conclusively prove who were among the V.C. pall-bearers at Skinner's funeral. 
27 Victoria Crosses were won by officers and men of 29th Division during its service at the Dardanelles and on the Western Front; named in the Divisional History, they were: 

Captain Richard Raymond Willis, 1st Lancashire Fusiliers
Sergeant Alfred Richards, "  "  "
Private William Kenealy, "  "  "
Captain (temp. Major) Cuthbert Bromley, "  "  "
Sergeant Frank Edward Stubbs, "  "  "
Corporal John Grimshaw, "  "  "
Corporal William Cosgrove, 1st Royal Munster Fusiliers
Captain Garth Neville Walford, Royal Artillery
2nd Lieutenant George Raymond Dallas Moor, 3rd Hampshires
Lieutenant Herbert James, 4th Worcesters
Captain G.R. O'Sullivan, 1st Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers
Sergeant James Somers, "  "  "
Sergeant Edward John Mott, 1st Borders 
Sergeant Albert White, 2nd South Wales Borderers
Sergeant (acting C.Q.S.) William H. Grimbaldeston, 1st K.O.S.B. 
Sergeant (acting C.S.M.) John Skinner, "  "  "
Sergeant James Ockenden, 1st Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Sergeant John Molyneux, 2nd Royal Fusiliers
Sergeant Joseph Lister, 1st Lancashire Fusiliers
Private Frederick George Dancox, 4th Worcesters
Major (acting Lieut-Col.) J. Sherwood-Kelly, commanding 1st Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers
Sergeant Charles Edward Spackman, 1st Borders
Lieutenant (Temp. Captain) Robert Gee, 2nd Royal Fusiliers
Captain (acting Lieut.-Col.) James Forbes-Robertson, 1st Borders
Sergeant John O'Niell, 2nd Leinsters
Private Martin Moffat, "  "  "
Lieutenant David Stuart McGregor, M.G.C. 

Of the above: 
Kenealy, Bromley, Stubbs, Walford, O'Sullivan, White, and Dancox had been killed before March 1918; 
Forbes-Robertson, O'Niell, Moffat, and McGregor had their awards gazetted after March 1918; 
the 1st Royal Munster Fusiliers (Cosgrove) and 1st Royal Inniskillng Fusiliers (Sherwood-Kelly) had been transferred to other Divisions before March 1918; 
Richards (1879-1953) had been discharged in 1915 owing to the wounds he received at Cape Helles; 
Willis (1876-1966) was a Major with the Lancashire Fusiliers and by March 1918 was attached to 6th York and Lancasters, who were then in 32 Brigade, 11th (Northern) Division.
Moor (1896-Nov. 1918, d. France) was by 1918 serving as an acting general staff officer attached to another Division. 
Somers (1894-May 1918) had transferred to R.A.S.C. but by 1918 was in Ireland, where he died.  
Ockenden (1890-1966) was seemingly sent to the Royal Victoria Hospital, Netley, in February 1918 and was discharged from service in April 1918, owing to effects of gas. 

This potentially leaves John Grimshaw (1893-1980), who by March 1918 was a 2nd-Lieutenant with the Lancashire Fusiliers; Herbert James (1887-1958); Edward John Mott (1893-1967); William Grimbaldeston (1889-1959); John Molyneux (1890-1972); Joseph Lister (1886-1963); Charles Edward Spackman (1891-1972); and Robert Gee (1876-1960). 
There is a post an IWM website which claims Molyneux, Ockenden, Lister and Grimbaldeston were at least 4 of the 6 pall-bearers - see https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/community/5057 - but no citations or sources to support this claim are provided. 

According to reports in the Press, Molyneux was in Britain in January 1918 - after receiving his V.C. at Buckingham Palace in December 1917 - and had a civic reception in his home town of St. Helens; Grimbaldeston was given leave in early 1918 and returned to Lancashire, where he was given a civic reception in Blackburn towards the end of January; while Spackman and Gee both received their V.C.s at Buckingham Palace on Saturday, 23rd February 1918, so it's possible these men may have returned from their leave to Blighty by mid-March 1918. At some stage Lister was gassed and by the end of March 1918 was reported as being a patient at Temple-Road Hospital in Birkenhead, so it's possible he may have been incapacitated and unable to attend the funeral. 

In terms of which 'General' holding a V.C. might have been among the pall-bearers, it's possible that they may have been an Officer who had received the V.C. prior to joining the Division.
Major-General Henry de Beauvoir De Lisle (1864-1955) commanded 29th Division from August 1915 until March 1918; on 12th March 1918, he left the Division to take over command of XIII Corps and the Division was temporarily in the command of Brig.-General R. M. Johnson of the Division's Artillery, until the new Divisional Commander, Major-General Douglas Edward Cayley (1870-1951) - who had previously commanded the Division's 88 Brigade - formally took command of the 29th on 19th March 1918. The Division's three Infantry Brigades (86, 87, and 88) were commanded respectively by Brig-General George Hamilton Cheape (1881-1957), Brig. General George Hanbury Noble Jackson (1876-1958), and Brig.-General Bernard Freyberg, V.C. (1889-1963). Freyberg took command of 88 Brigade in January 1918 and was already a holder of the Victoria Cross, having received one for actions on the Somme in 1916 whilst commanding the Hood Battalion of the Royal Naval Division. Of the other General Officers in the Division in March 1918, none appear to have held a V.C. so could it be that Freyberg - who himself would have an illustrious career, particularly with the New Zealand Expeditionary Force during WW2 - was the 'General' pall-bearer cited by Swallow? 

I'm sorry we've been unable to identify the V.C. pall-bearers - it's possible some of the surviving original records from the First World War period at the National Archives at Kew (such as the War diaries of the individual units in 29th Division) might offer some clues, but I'm afraid we can't find any references to them in our printed collections. 

I hope the above proves of some use but, should you have any further queries on this matter, please feel free to contact us again. Good luck with your research.
Yours sincerely, 

[Knotty]

Hi Hiram

All I can say to that is…..”Hats off to Robbie at the NLS, someone who has gone the extra mile”

And as they say so close yet so far.

John

[Glengarry1950]

Hi John,

Yes, I fully agree his reply was commendable, if only all organisations replied with the same volume and detail.

Hiram

[michaeldr]

On 18/08/2023 at 16:45, Knotty said:

Hats off to Robbie at the NLS, someone who has gone the extra mile

A Very impressive reply indeed