Possible Royal Horse Guards

[IanA]

I am looking into military relics displayed at Mellerstain House in the Scottish Borders. There are a number of items there which obviously relate to Lord Binning of the RHG who had retired from the army but was recalled in 1915 to command the 41st brigade. His health gave way and he died of pneumonia in January, 1917. He had commanded the RHG but (as far as I can see) none of these uniforms carry any indication of unit. They may, of course, have belonged to other family members. I would be interested to hear any words of wisdom from our experts.

[6RRF]

The foliate embroidery is the full dress uniform of an aide de camp [with VR buttons]. Don't know about the other one. It may relate to the Lothians and Border Horse

[IanA]

Thanks for your response. That fits nicely as he was appointed ADC to the Viceroy during the Black Mountain Expedition.

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, IanA said:

Thanks for your response. That fits nicely as he was appointed ADC to the Viceroy during the Black Mountain Expedition.

Hello. 

I found an image from an auction house confirming 6RRF as correct and that the tunic was listed as belonging to an Edwardian ADC to a Viceroy. The second tunic is reportedly that of a Victorian Hussar though the source is on Pinterest.

Gunner 87

 

[IanA]

Thanks a lot. I'm not even close to being an expert on uniforms but I was surprised at the lack of any regimental collar badge.

[FROGSMILE]

Following on from 6RRF and Gunner87 replies - these uniforms are laid down in the dress regulations for officers of the Army in iterations 1864, 1876 and 1891.  The details are very complex, with variations to cuff and collar lace, plus sometimes the slashes on the rear of the skirt, depending upon rank.

Both garments are full dress tunics:

1.  That tunic with four** round cord loops, drops and olivettes is for general staff officers carrying out operational functions on behalf of their commanders¥, and members of the general officers personal staff, such as MAs and ADCs down to and including the rank of lieutenant.  The cuff, collar and skirt decorations differed on an ascending scale of splendour according to rank.

2.  That tunic with eight rows of rich gold appliquéd foliate is for personal staff officers, such as MAs, their Deputies, ADCs and Equerries# to the Sovereign and members of the Royal Family.  

In all cases the headdress worn was a cocked hat, which at the time was the at-a-glance unifying feature for all staff officers, including those at regimental staff (quartermasters, adjutants and surgeons).

** originally five.

# except those of general rank who wore their own uniforms with aiguillettes and shoulder cyphers.

¥ i.e. AG, QMG, DAG, DQMG, CRE, DRA, AAG, AQMG, DAAG, DAQMG, and various other specialist staff officers down to and including the rank of captain.

Edited 27 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Images of mounted generals and their staff.  Note that the general officers in command and colonels “on the staff” did not have gold lace ornamentation on the front of their own tunics.  All undress uniforms, except mess dress, were dark blue.

Edited 29 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[IanA]

Wonderful illustrations - many thanks! Your comment regarding general staff officers is interesting as the RHG don't appear to have been engaged in the Hazara Campaign yet Binning was awarded the medal and clasp. I had wondered whether he'd been on the staff and this seems to strengthen that notion. 

[FROGSMILE]

On 26/07/2023 at 15:34, IanA said:

Wonderful illustrations - many thanks! Your comment regarding general staff officers is interesting as the RHG don't appear to have been engaged in the Hazara Campaign yet Binning was awarded the medal and clasp. I had wondered whether he'd been on the staff and this seems to strengthen that notion. 

Assuming that the scarlet tunic with frogging was his then its only purpose was for staff officers of the general staff.  They are relatively rare to see now because the occasions for such staff officers to wear full dress uniform were few and far between and there can’t have been many tunics that have survived.  It exemplifies just how expensive an officers tailoring bill might be, that by the time he reached the dizzy heights of being a successful (i.e. ‘Senior’) officer, he might require**:

1. A regimental duty tunic.

2. A general staff officers tunic.

3. A personal aide to Royalty’s tunic.

4. A frock coat (or equivalent in highland units).

5. A blue serge (patrol) jacket.

6. A greatcoat.

7. A mess uniform.

8. A drab wool service dress.

9. A drab peacoat (aka British Warm - mandatory for colonel and above, optional below).

10. A khaki drill service dress.

** from 1900 onward there was a concerted effort to reduce the expense of uniforms with the outcome published in the revised dress regulations published in 1900 and then yet further in 1911.

It had already and for some time previously been the case that junior officers appointed to the staff for a 3-year tour, or less, were granted a dispensation to wear regimental full dress, but with staff officers pouch belts, headdress and other furniture.  This eventually became far more widespread and the model for future reform.

NB.  There was a full colour booklet of portrait images published around the turn of the 20th century that shows almost all the ten types of uniform above.  It is titled “Celebrities of the Army” and marks the heyday described in this thread.  A must have for uniform aficionados.

Edited 31 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[IanA]

Thanks again.

[FROGSMILE]

On 26/07/2023 at 15:49, IanA said:

Thanks again.

I’m glad to help, the general staff officers tunics have become so rare that few auction houses and sale rooms know what they are and regularly misidentify them as e.g. ‘Hussar tunics’.  The tunics for personal staff to the Royal family seem better known, perhaps unsurprisingly given their status.

Note that the appointment of ‘Colonel on the Staff’ wore a similar plain fronted tunic and feathered cocked hat to that of general officers in command.  Colonel on the Staff was an alternative appointment for the most senior field rank of substantive full colonel, the other being Brigadier General (a temporary non substantive appointment) commanding an infantry brigade.

By the end of the 2nd Anglo/Boer pretty much all of this splendour was gone, apart from in the Royal Court, leaving just the same old patrician families who could still (just about) afford it.  Only the Queen’s Equerry still had the 8 rows of gold lace foliate, all other personal staff having 8 rows of double scarlet worsted piping instead, a much more subtle affair.  The previous [expensive] splendour was pretty much abandoned following the old Queen’s passing.  It must have put hundreds of gold lace makers out of business at a stroke of the pen.

Edited 27 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

Thanks Frog. Was there any reason for the flamboyance of many army uniforms at those times or were we just following continental fashion?   I don`t recall the Royal Navy having a similar penchant!

[FROGSMILE]

On 27/07/2023 at 16:57, PhilB said:

Thanks Frog. Was there any reason for the flamboyance of many army uniforms at those times or were we just following continental fashion?   I don`t recall the Royal Navy having a similar penchant!

It originated with French Royal and Military fashions going back as far as the ‘Sun King’, with both of those institutions favouring elaborate and conspicuous finery.  Following the French revolution and regicide Napoleon emerged and, once he made himself Emperor, he developed a taste for exerting his own influence and preferences.  The whole of continental Europe became an armed camp of competing dynasties and flamboyant uniforms became a part of that.

Britain was initially restrained in its tastes, but the Regency under George Prince of Wales embraced it, and his dandy friend’s encouraged it.  When Victoria came to the throne in 1837 things had settled down a little and became less ostentatious in the Army, especially under the influence of the ever pragmatic Prince Albert, but in the Royal Court Victoria still liked to put on a good show, even more so when she became Empress of India and her offspring married into pretty much all the crowned heads of Europe.

The outcome was determination in all quarters not to be outshone by ‘the others’.  A feature of that was that all the sovereigns and princes became officers in each other’s armies, with entire wardrobes full of uniforms each attempting to outvy the other.

Finally and most importantly Britain as head of an empire on which the sun never set had long realised the effect on native powers and subordinate princes and the awe that could be engendered by ensuring that officials and governors conveyed their power by the way that they dressed, and not just by their ability to send a gunboat.

The single image below shows the replacement pattern tunic for the personal staff of the Sovereign and Royal Family.  The eight rows of gold foliate lace now gone and replaced by rows of doubled scarlet worsted piping.  The foliate lace was retained on the collars, cuffs, and slashed back flaps though.

Edited 31 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

Did the late Victorian/Early Edwardian Royal Navy (equally anxious to impress the locals!) ever exceed a show of golden epaulettes?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PhilB said:

Did the late Victorian/Early Edwardian Royal Navy (equally anxious to impress the locals!) ever exceed a show of golden epaulettes?

No Phil, I meant to mention that they were much less ostentatious and very utilitarian.  Apart from the officers there was no laid down uniform for the Royal Navy until the time of the Crimean War.

Part of this was because the RN were much more wedded to technical competence and less interested in whether an officer came from the ‘right’ sort of family.  They were a far more practical and operationally focused service than the Army, not least perhaps because their operating environment was such an unforgiving one even without armed conflict.

The RN were by comparison to the Army little interested in uniform and even after dress regulations for ratings were introduced they continued to set aside periods in each working routine when the men would make and mend their own uniforms from slops, just as they had for generations beforehand.  The only difference was that they now had a pattern to follow without deviation.

 I think I would sum up the difference In philosophy at that [Victorian] time as being:

Army - look at my disciplined soldiers in their dread inducing red tunics.  There may not be many of them, but their modern weapons, discipline and training will scythe you down.  And if they don’t well send a naval gunboat anyway.

Navy - look at the size of my F***ing ship - there’s plenty more where this one came from, and if you don’t do what I say I’ll reduce your entire port to rubble and you’ll never trade from it again.

Edited 27 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE