X beach to Lancashire Landing

[kelly]

Having seen some recent photos I get the impression there was a path of some description that bordered the sea from X beach to either Bakery Beach or W beach, can anyone confirm my comment and does anyone know if it can still be accessed

[Howard]

There are very detailed maps on TrenchMapper like this one that show paths. You could also look at the 1:5,000 post evacuation maps then fade them out to see what is there now.

Howard

[PhilB]

Interesting to see that Lancashire Landing became Port Talbot!  2nd SWB influence?

[michaeldr]

In January 1916 there was an evacuation route “along the beach” from X to W Beach which was used by the 13th Division, however whether or not such a route is viable today I cannot say, never having done it myself.

The name 'Port Talbot' was not commonly used, and where it was used, then it is not clear from when this dates. The RE History Vol.6 gives a very good plan [see page 112 here https://www.nzsappers.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Corps-History-Vol-06.pdf ] but does not use that name. 

This notwithstanding, it is possible that the name was introduced by the Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers who were actively employed in the area of W Beach during the second half of the campaign. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/royal-monmouthshire-royal-engineers/ 

[kelly]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

In January 1916 there was an evacuation route “along the beach” from X to W Beach which was used by the 13th Division, however whether or not such a route is viable today I cannot say, never having done it myself.

The name 'Port Talbot' was not commonly used, and where it was used, then it is not clear from when this dates. The RE History Vol.6 gives a very good plan [see page 112 here https://www.nzsappers.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Corps-History-Vol-06.pdf ] but does not use that name. 

This notwithstanding, it is possible that the name was introduced by the Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers who were actively employed in the area of W Beach during the second half of the campaign. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/royal-monmouthshire-royal-engineers/ 

Hi and good morning

The plan is most informative, especially as I have had some concerns regarding the proximity of Hill 141, thank you

Regards

20 hours ago, Howard said:

There are very detailed maps on TrenchMapper like this one that show paths. You could also look at the 1:5,000 post evacuation maps then fade them out to see what is there now.

Howard

Good morning

Very helpful, thank you

Garry

[michaeldr]

31 minutes ago, kelly said:

The plan is most informative, especially as I have had some concerns regarding the proximity of Hill 141, thank you

In which case this might also help - Hill 114 - Karajaoglu Tepe - Hill of Karaja’s Son. (from 'Gallipoli Mission') map ref 13 c 1

[michaeldr]

One final point;

when I was there in May this year, on the Gallipoli Association's Hidden Gallipoli Tour, the area just to the west of Hill 114 (seen as a bare, oblong shaped, patch of ground on the second shot above) was occupied by the Turkish Army, who were keen to discourage us from getting any closer. They were almost certainly there as part of a short duration exercise, however I have seen them in that spot before, and it is something to watch out for.

[michaeldr]

On 25/07/2023 at 16:24, PhilB said:

Interesting to see that Lancashire Landing became Port Talbot!  2nd SWB influence?

Phil,

further to my previous stab at an answer to your question, here's another thought … … I wonder if the scarcity of references to this name suggests that

a] it was not an Army idea

&

b] it was made very late in the day ie at the evacuation?

Perhaps it was a Naval joke or pun, referring to the officer superintending the final embarkation?

See:-

 

NAVAL ORDERS ISSUED BY THE V.A.C., E.M.S.

ORDERS FOR THE FINAL STAGE OF THE EVACUATION OF THE HELLES POSITION.

(Hectograph issued of this Memorandum dated 1^st January, is hereby cancelled.)

No. 266.                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Lord Nelson,”

Memorandum.                                                                                                                                                                                                   3rd January, 1916.

The Final Stage of the evacuation will consist of the embarkation of 17,000 men and also some guns, if circumstances permit. It must be clearly understood, however, that the saving of guns is of secondary importance and must only be attempted if it can be done without jeopardising the evacuation of the personnel. The above embarkation will take place on one night ; provisionally fixed as that of 8th/9th January.

2. Captain Henry F. G. Talbot, of "Swiftsure,” will superintend the embarkation from seaward. … …

… … … … … … … … ...

 

Appendix “D.”

(Eastern Mediterranean Squadron Memorandum No. 266, of 3rd January, 1916.)

Appointments of Officers.

In charge of arrangements for disembarkation at Mudros - Commodore M. S. FitzMaurice.

In charge of embarkation at Helles - Captain Henry F. C. Talbot

In charge of the assembling of small craft for the operation - Captain E. C. Carver.

Naval Transport Officer, Helles - Captain C. M. Staveley.

Assistant Naval Transport Officer, Helles - Acting Commander C. F. A. Mulock.

To assist Naval Transport Officer, Helles - Lieut.-Commander H. de F. Chance, Lieut. H. A. B. Keate, Lieut. G. C. C. Crookshank, Lieut. N. S. Egerton & Lieut. H. J. Carnduff.

Naval Transport Officer, Kephalo - Captain H. R. Godfrey.

In charge of steamboats patrolling north of Gully beach - Lieut.-Commander Lord Alistair Graham

Edited 26 July , 2023 by michaeldr

[PhilB]

Sounds quite credible!

[michaeldr]

20 hours ago, michaeldr said:

I wonder if the scarcity of references to this name suggests that

a] it was not an Army idea

Could well be the case - 'Port Talbot' is not on the list of over 100 different “names of localities sanctioned” by Force Order No.27 issued by GHQ, 29^th October 1915

[PhilB]

[kelly]

On 27/07/2023 at 16:37, PhilB said:

Facinating, thank you all for your input