Daniel Kelly, RNVR - Clyde, Z/4318

[Eoin Gallacher]

Hello,

Can anyone tell me what the circled part is talking about... as it it says he was discharged 11.5.15 but then mentions 1917/18 above that.

Many thanks!

Eoin

Edited 23 July , 2023 by Eoin Gallacher

[horatio2]

That entry on his RND Record Card merely states that, on 14 December 1917, the RND Record Office in London wrote to the RND Depot (at Crystal Palace) asking for details of his early service. The Depot replied, on 8 February 1918, that his first service was in the 3rd [training] Battalion at Crystal Palace [date not stated but can be assumed to be 7 May 1915 or shortly thereafter]. His Pay Number "C/142" shows that he was placed in 'C' Company of 3rd Battalion. 

Discharged after only five days, he did not qualify for medals.

Edited 23 July , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

N.B. when quoting his Official Number you should include the 'Clyde' prefix as there are four other RNVR ratings from other Divisions numbered 'Z/4318'

Edited 23 July , 2023 by horatio2

[Eoin Gallacher]

Ah ok!

I have never seen a record of a soldier refusing a vaccine as all of the records I've looked at they were vaccinated pre joining the military, I would assume probably at birth?

Gathering from the reason he was discharged, it seems men HAD to be vaccinated...

And this was after he had been sent for training - would this be where unvaccinated men would get vaccinated?

why might he have refused... would it be the same reasons for people today?

Eoin

Edited 23 July , 2023 by Eoin Gallacher

[horatio2]

We need medical advice on this. I assume it refers to smallpox vaccination but may refer to typhoid.

When the RND was en-route to the Dardanelles in Mrach 1915, the MO in HMT FRANCONIA recorded that he spent three days vaccinating on board, five doctors giving 800 jabs in one forenoon. At Malta they had to seek extra supplies of "anti-typhoid vaccine".

I think childhood smallpox vaccination had been (more or less) compulsory in Britain since the mid-1800s but objections (like this man) seem to have been tolerated by the early 20th Centrury.

It seems professional sportsmen with anti-vax opinions are not a new phenomenon. Reasons can only be surmised in this case.

[MaureenE]

It seems smallpox vaccination was compulsory in 1915

https://archive.org/details/medicalservicesg01macpuoft/page/202/mode/2up?q=vaccination Pages 202-203

Medical Services General History, Volume 1 (History of the Great War based on Official Documents)

Maureen

[Eoin Gallacher]

Wow thank you both! This is very interesting!

so it seems to be small pox, that he refused…

yet if he re enlisted a year later he would have been allowed in. Would he have been conscripted later on in the war? As I assume footballer wasnt a reserved occupation…

Was it mandatory at birth? As why wasn’t he? He had 3 brother, 2 going to France and 1 to Salonika… so they must have ether been vaccinated at birth or when they joined.

Eoin

Edited 23 July , 2023 by Eoin Gallacher

[horatio2]

58 minutes ago, Eoin Gallacher said:

so it seems to be small pox, that he refused…

Since an Act of 1853, smallpox vacination had been compulsory for all children. The Vaccination Act 1853 made it compulsory for all children born after 1 August 1853 to be vaccinated against smallpox during their first 3 months of life. Parents who failed to get their children vaccinated would be subject to a fine.

The Admiralty required all new entrants to be revaccinated. "...All persons entering the Service are to be revaccinated ; should no results follow on the first operation, a second vaccination is invariably to be performed." [King's Regulations (1913) Article 1316].

Since this man was a volunteer for RNVR service, it is a bit odd that he would disqualify himelf less than a week later.