Battlefield find Lee Enfield enquiry

[andrew pugh]

Hi

About 25 years ago I discovered a British Lee Enfield in a field, so its pretty rusty as you can imagine after all those years laying there. It is straight and has the bayonet fixed and is in the cocked position and also has the magazine in situ. That in itself tells a story at that time because the owner dropped it. What I want to ask is this I want to sell it but it has been suggested to me that it has to be certified as deactivated is this advice true and if it is how do you contact these people. After all there are no moving parts on it. The sight midway along the barrel I think its called the bed sight has what looks like bone on the adjustment dials. You advice would be most welcome.

Kind Regards

Andy

[4thGordons]

This is a bit of a minefield and, as you can see from the warnings etc on this thread members are prohibited from giving advice on the safety of munitions. At a stretch this *might* be considered to be relevant here.

This is a legal issue and gun laws are complex, sometimes contradictory and often depend on the interpretation of the local constabulary.

(For me this is more complex as I have not been resident in the UK for 20 years) HOWEVER, I believe that based on the letter of the law you need to be very careful because even a rusted relic such as you describe *COULD* be considered a firearm in the eyes of the law and in that case it would need to be certified as deactivated for legal sale/transfer. Whether this is possible given what you have described is another matter

However unlikely it might seem (rusted solid) given what you have said it is conceivable to me that there are rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber (the rifle is unlikely to have been cocked on an empty chamber), and these might be viable - therefore it might be considered a loaded firearm (which might complicate legal status).

I would seek legal advice, or advice from the local constabulary - or perhaps start with a local gunsmith.

Chris 

Edited 20 July , 2023 by 4thGordons

[JMB1943]

I can see that 4th Gordon's is typing, so just a very simple request.

Can you post a photo showing the rifle  & bayonet?

Regards,

JMB

[Spaceman]

It sounds as though this is an SMLE judging by the sights being halfway along the barrel although a picture would help. If this was dropped by a serving member of the armed services, it must have been a very long time ago (at least 50 years?).  The alternative might be that it was dropped by a cadet and is drill pattern (DP) rather than a viable firearm.

Either way, I don't think there is much of a choice in this case but to take it to a police station and hand it in. Just because it is rusty will not change it's status as an illegal firearm and. obviously, there would be concern that the rifle is loaded. Even if you were to take it to an authorised firearms dealer with the aim of getting it deactivated, this might not be possible if it is in a poor rusty state.

[andrew pugh]

Hi Spaceman

My fault I forgot to say that it was found in Northern France in the Somme area and is an old ww1 relic. I will take on board the information given.

Regards

Andy

[peregrinvs]

Relic guns are sold in the UK:

https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/relics
 

But the devil is in the detail. The above are presumably so far gone that the dealer is confident that they are de facto deactivated and no longer legally a firearm. So the question really is what condition is your relic SMLE in? If it still contains unfired .303 rounds then those in themselves would require an FAC to possess. A suitable rod would confirm whether there is a round in the breech (if you can get it in) and you should be able to see whether there are any in the magazine.

Perhaps take it to a Section 1 RFD to store on your behalf (they will charge for this) whilst you decide what to do with it? 

[4thGordons]

1 hour ago, peregrinvs said:

Relic guns are sold in the UK:

https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/relics
 

But the devil is in the detail. The above are presumably so far gone that the dealer is confident that they are de facto deactivated and no longer legally a firearm.

I would assume you are correct also Interestingly the rifles all appear to be missing the bolt. I have a dim recollection that perhaps the bolt (the load bearing component?) is the licensed bit rather than the barrel/receiver? (not sure how that would apply to the S&W though)

Consulting with a RFD sounds like a good starting point.

[peregrinvs]

The barrel and receiver are also licensable firearm components. Perhaps they have had some additional deactivation work done? (Some of the MG42 barrels look like they’ve had a pin welded through) D&B are a major dealer, so I assume they wouldn’t be selling them unless they were sure they had their legal ducks in a row.

[trajan]

On 21/07/2023 at 17:28, 4thGordons said:

I would assume you are correct also Interestingly the rifles all appear to be missing the bolt. I have a dim recollection that perhaps the bolt (the load bearing component?) is the licensed bit rather than the barrel/receiver? (not sure how that would apply to the S&W though)

Consulting with a RFD sounds like a good starting point.

 

Laws vary so much from country to country... As I undestand it here in Turkey, it is the presence or absence of the bolt on a military grade bolt action rifle (i.e., one wth a 'modern' calibre) that is the decider as to whether it is permissable to own one.