William Cumpstey - Royal Flying Corps

[blackburnian]

Following some family history research, I have discovered that my GG Uncle, William Cumpstey was in the Royal Flying Corps. William was born in Blackburn Lancashire on 22 November 1873 and I have a copy of a photograph in uniform in 1917, which would have made him 44 years old.

Would any member be able to give me some insight into his service during the Great War, which he survived.

Kind regards

Blackburnian

[charlie962]

169273, his record is at National Archives here.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12409139

A storeman, but no obvious overseas service?

[charlie962]

This extract from Findmypast copy:

[charlie962]

I notice his record says prior service with "Vol Motor Force". I wonder what that was?

Edit. Lots of newspaper reports on this nationwide organisation. Here's 1915 state of play per Findmypast

Edited 14 July , 2023 by charlie962

[PRC]

3 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

This extract from Findmypast copy:

Charlie - did he not get a call up \ transfer until after the RAF was formed?

I was intrigued that he wasn't on the Day 1 Muster Roll, as OP has him serving in 1917 with the Royal Flying Corps. But when I tried a quick near number search I come up with individuals indexed on FMP as born c1899 and c1901, and with records commencing 1918. I can't see the details on their service records, but none are coming up on the Day 1 Roll.

Thanks,
Peter

[charlie962]

7 minutes ago, PRC said:

Charlie - did he not get a call up \ transfer until after the RAF was formed?

18/5/18 is his RAF service start with nothing further about Reserve etc and nothing obvious RFC.

[PRC]

12 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

18/5/18 is his RAF service start with nothing further about Reserve etc and nothing obvious RFC.

Thanks for checking

1 hour ago, blackburnian said:

I have a copy of a photograph in uniform in 1917

So the question is then how it is known the picture was taken in 1917 - if it's a definate dateable event, (family wedding for example), then either the picture may not be of him or it is doubtful that he is wearing an RFC uniform.

Cheers,
Peter

[charlie962]

13 minutes ago, PRC said:

picture was taken in 1917 - if it's a definate dateable event, (family wedding for example), then either the picture may not be of him or it is doubtful that he is wearing an RFC uniform.

The motor volunteers appear to have worn the uniform of the volunteer force but also at the discretion of the county Territorial Force perhaps.

Here's an extract of a meeting at Reading 1917 for forming a unit.

Courtesy Findmypast newspapers 

[PRC]

17 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The motor volunteers appear to have worn the uniform of the volunteer force but also at the discretion of the county Territorial Force perhaps.

I wa thinking along the same lines. The Wikipedia page on the Volunteer Training Corps, (which morphed into the Volunteer Force in 1916), has an illustration of the uniforms worn by the Volunteers.

Image courtesy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Training_Corps

Their legal status as part of the armed forces seems to have been a recurring issue - in the early part of the war it was motivated by the fear of invasion and the possible capture of individuals who could be shot as spies and saboteurs as they were not in uniform. The wearing of uniform seems to have been the preferred solution, so I'm not sure of there would have been much discretion involved.

Cheers,
Peter

[blackburnian]

PRC and Charlie962 - thank you so much for looking into this for me. As regards the photograph, I think it was a family member who had written RFC 1917 against it. I could post the photograph but am unsure about taking this action because I came across it on a family history site and suspect I would require the family’s permission to do so. The uniform is very plain khaki with a forage cap, and nowhere near a likeness to the uniforms you have identified.

From your information I take it William was not in the RFC and might simply have been a motor volunteer ?

Blackburnian

[PRC]

20 minutes ago, blackburnian said:

From your information I take it William was not in the RFC and might simply have been a motor volunteer ?

It would appear definately not in the Royal Flying Corps, so calls into question the 1917 date as well.

Is there anything visible in the way of capbadge or shoulder titles? A crop of those elements of the picture I'm sure would come under fair use for personal research purposes as you have a legitimate issue to resolve, (and if the picture is over 100 years old then copyright and image rights almost certainly isn't an issue - it's just nice to ask plus presumably would put you in contact with someone from your extended family).

So likely to be either a pre May 1918 picture of him in his Volunteer Motor Force uniform;
Or a picture of him post May 1918 in his Royal Air Force uniform.

That of course assumes the right man had been identified - if it turns out the unit identification shows the man photographed to be serving with another unit then calls into question the whole identification - wouldn't be the first time and definately won't be the last when it comes to pictures on online family trees

Cheers,
Peter

[blackburnian]

Peter - thank you for your response. I have contacted online the G Grandson, confirming that I am a relative, so I’m hoping he will respond. However, his last post on the site was some 5 years ago so I’m not confident. The photograph itself is professionally taken probably by a local photographer in Blackburn. At first glance, there does not appear to be any clear indication of a regiment etc.

Thank you once again for your information

Blackburnian

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, blackburnian said:

From your information I take it William was not in the RFC and might simply have been a motor volunteer ?

We have not found any evidence of him being in the RFC but we have the 1918 RAF storeman record. If he'd previously been RFC then that would have been shown on that record.

If the photo is in Ancestry then perhaps provide a link? 

Charlie

[Matlock1418]

On 14/07/2023 at 21:07, charlie962 said:

169273

On 14/07/2023 at 21:14, charlie962 said:

William CUMPSTEY, 169273, RAF

Discharged/demobilised on 14.2.19 [Quite likely from the Dispersal Centre Prees Heath I would think] and was awarded a temporary disability pension of 5/6 pw 15.2.19 - 19.8.19 [the 20% degre of disability rate for a pension Class V ranker] - Rather looks like a RAF Class Z Reserve obligation may have been required [this would not have been incompatible with a pension for a relatively minor condition which had a reasonable expectation of getting better in a short/say in six month period (which was a quite common award period) - they could have easily hauled him back and reevaluated if necessary, which fortunately for him and the Nation it wasn't]

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

[charlie962]

10 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Rather looks like a RAF Class Z Reserve obligation may have been required

Another snippet from his RAF record via Findmypast

[blackburnian]

Matlock 1418 and Charlie962  thank you very much for your continued efforts on my behalf and for the relevant attachments which give me a better understanding of my GG Uncle’s situation. Prior to this period of his life, William had been an outstanding distance runner with Blackburn Harriers and post this time became a very accomplished Crown Green bowler.

Thank you once again, your support and advice have been very much appreciated.

Kind regards 

Blackburnian

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Another snippet from his RAF record via Findmypast

Thanks.

I note it shows RAF Class G Reserve - seemingly which the same as Army Class Z Reserve = easy recall if necessary.  Every day a school day, especially about the RAF. 

M