Guest KevinJones Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Yesterday a friend showed me some documents regarding his Great Uncle, Charles M Higby, 8th Gloucestershire Rgt, No 204138, Private. He died at Ypres and was buried in a cemetary there. Whilst looking at the photograph of his grave, which my friends Father visted in 1996, I noticed that the C Higby on the tombstone was a Lance Corporal, I was curious so I said I would check the National Archives for him today. Well my suspicions were confirmed, the 8th Gloucestershire had two C Higbys, both unrelated and both killed at Ypres, and I now suspect that my friend and his family have been visiting the wrong grave since 1922, when his Great Aunt first visited the grave. My next question is should I tell him, and if so how should I go about it? Kind Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 If your friend is relatively young and his elder relatives are deceased or uninterested I would tell him. If not , leave well alone. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Yesterday a friend showed me some documents regarding his Great Uncle, Charles M Higby, 8th Gloucestershire Rgt, No 204138, Private. He died at Ypres and was buried in a cemetary there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I may be misunderstanding you here, Kevin. You suggest they may have been visiting the wrong grave. But if the name and number you give correctly identify your friend's Great Uncle, and as you have a clear picture of the grave, it should be easy to determine whether or not it is the right grave as you'll be able to check the number. Or do you mean that you think they have identified the wrong soldier as their relative? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinJones Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Tom, the grave that they have been visiting is for C Higby, Lance Corporal, (which is the inscription on the tombstone) No 1616TF. My friends Great Uncle is Charles M Higby, Private, No 204138. Sorry for my poor explanation. Kind regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Thanks, Kevin, What put a doubt in my mind is that it isn't uncommon for a "private" to be recorded as a L/Cpl on his gravetone, especially if he was carrying out the extra duties temporarily, so I thought that this alone might have been the reason for the confusion. Yes - it seems that your friend's father clearly visited the wrong grave. However, he did so in memory of the right soldier - his uncle. My instinct tells me that the misunderstanding should be corrected, and I believe that's what you think too. But you know the people concerned, so only you can decide whether it's appropriate to say anything. Finally, and just a thought. Your friend's Great Aunt who visited in 1922 may well have visited the correct grave, as she would have been given its location by the CWGC, who would also have asked her at some stage to check that the details on record for the soldier (her husband?) were correct. I feel sure she would have spotted any error. Maybe it was a later family member, without such detailed first-hand knowledge, who first visited the wrong grave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Kevin I notice that CWGC has C M Higby 204138 listed as a Lance Corporal and there is not another Higby listed ? Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinJones Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Hi Tom, thanks for your reply. I too think that it was a later family member who first visited the wrong grave. I think that my friend would be grateful for the information. I'll keep you informed. Kind Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Neither on SDGW Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Kevin I would be very careful here that you have all the facts before proceeding with this. As has been pointed out above there is only one CM Higby listed on CWGC and that is 204138 which as far as I can work out is your friends Great Uncle http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...asualty=2938294 There is no mention of a 1616TF Higby on CWGC, but there is on the online MICs suggesting that this man survived. It could be that they have been visiting the correct grave with the wrong details on the stone. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Kevin Did you find service records, or are you working on the MICs? Is it perhaps the same man with two medal index cards - one before, and one after territorial renumbering, the first for a star, and the second for his BWM and VM? Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 Whatever has happened your intervention is not going to be welcome news, so here's some good advice-----forget it, keep stum, mind your own business and let them find out for themselves by accidentily presenting them with some little bits of info so they can find out for themselves with your help of course. This way you wont be regarded as the messenger who bought them bad news which is what you will be otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 There is no mention of a 1616TF Higby on CWGC, but there is on the online MICs suggesting that this man survived. It could be that they have been visiting the correct grave with the wrong details on the stone. Andy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good work Andy! As you say, there may be more to this than meets the eye and there seems to be some way to go yet before Kevin will be in posession of all the facts. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 10 April , 2005 Share Posted 10 April , 2005 We had a thread some time ago that resulted in a health warning being issued, as sometimes things were being brought up that might be a problem. Look at the possibilbites and make sure they are all right and you are bomb proof, then if the result is the same you can deliver the facts....it is in the public domain anyway... John John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 I would tell him better to know than to find out by visiting the grave and find the other familys relitives there visiting at the same time, In a way it would bring comfort to me knowing some one was visiting my relitives grave when i could not, But there again i work as a undertaker and our feelings are a little hidden in some issues. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 I think they should be told. BUT... please check, double check and then do it again. It seems to me that there is much ground for errors on both sides here and the last thing you need is to walk into a storm of trouble. Is there only one grave stone? If so where is the other one, did it ever exsist and if so where is it? Different cemetery? As i say i think the right thing is to tell but only once all the facts have been ascertained and verified. regards and good luck Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 I would echo what Arm says . Treble check all the facts and give them the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 You don't have to say it is either the right grave or the wrong grave. The evidence shows that it may be someone else, but that the grave details may also be correct. Just say what you know. You do not need to have reached a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinJones Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Thank you everyone for your advice on this thread, I have decided not to say anything to my friend about the possible mix-up with the grave, he has asked if I will obtain the MIC for his Great Uncle, I will also get the other Higby MIC out of curiosity. Again many thanks for your help. Kind Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Hello Kevin Why not contact CWGC to see if they can cast any further light on the situation, their comments may well be very interesting. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Sue has hinted at the problem here - this man was a TF enlistment, and died in 1917. As such he will have two numbers - one a four figure one, and the other a six figure one. This was due to TF re-numbering in 1917. I would suggest you download his MIC(s) to check this before you make any bold statements, or get a forum member to do it for you at the NA> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Kevin Did you find service records, or are you working on the MICs? Is it perhaps the same man with two medal index cards - one before, and one after territorial renumbering, the first for a star, and the second for his BWM and VM? Sue <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sue has hinted at the problem here - this man was a TF enlistment, and died in 1917. As such he will have two numbers - one a four figure one, and the other a six figure one. This was due to TF re-numbering in 1917. I would suggest you download his MIC(s) to check this before you make any bold statements, or get a forum member to do it for you at the NA> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is this common? I mean to have 2 MIC's, (other than for decorations). All the ones I have seen, have BOTH 4 and 6 figure numbers on the same card. Personally, I don't think I've ever seen them "Split". Just curious... For what it's worth, I agree with Dan. Tell him your concerns, and work it out together. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Two MIC's are relatively common. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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