Fromelles Visit and Rhonda Sap

[Dan180]

Hi all, I am visiting Fromelles for the first time on 19th July this year - the anniversary of the 1916 battle. One of my relatives fought with the 2 Bucks Battalion, Ox and Bucks Light Infantry during the attack and I have been looking forward to visiting the battlefield for a long time since discovering his story.

What I would absolutely love is to be able to stand on the spot/as close to the spot where the 2 Bucks 'went over the top' out of Rhonda Sap towards the Sugar Loaf (of course, crop harvest permitting etc). I don't have any of the Linesman products or anything similar - is there anyone who would be able to direct me to a spot on google maps where Rhonda Sap once was? Or otherwise is anyone able to advise (without spending a lot of money) on how to best go about finding the exact (generally speaking) spot?

Hope this makes sense. Thanks, Dan.

 

[AOK4]

Check here (if you look for sugar loaf, you'll go to the location): https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/trenchmapper-public/

Jan

[Don Regiano]

Flag marks the exit from Rhondda Sap towards Sugar Loaf

 

here is the trench map with flag

 

[WhiteStarLine]

15 hours ago, Dan180 said:

stand on the spot/as close to the spot where the 2 Bucks 'went over the top' out of Rhonda Sap towards the Sugar Loaf

@Dan180, if you have a tablet or PC with WiFi you can do that free of charge.  Disclaimer: none of the following applies if any part of the land is private property.  @Don Regiano visits France very regularly and Don probably has some insight into this aspect.

Follow the link cited by Jan and drive to the nearest road approach.  Looking at Google StreetView the muddy farm track that runs to the SW of Rue de Petillon stops after 400 yards.  If you open TrenchMapper and have WiFi, it will show you where you are if you right click and select Track Location. Another 95 yards in the same direction places you on the line between Sugar Loaf and Rhondda Sap.  The latter was on your right.

Notes:

1. The disclaimer on private property is the most important part of this post.
2. Rhondda Sap extended for ~ 225 yards.  British trench side is 50.619566, 2.818632.  Midpoint is 50.619532, 2.819778 and it ended around 50.619366,2.821511.
3. Sugar Loaf is given on every trench map as 50.618759, 2.823983.  Note that the modern map shows a Point of Interest called Sugarloaf well inside the German trenches.  The important thing is you will have followed Rhondda Sap to the start of the German trenches.
4. TrenchMapper is not designed for mobile phones - it can be used in fullscreen mode but to be honest it is pretty awful on very small screens.

However close you finally get, at least you will know you are sharing some ground with the men who followed you.  Have a great trip!

[AOK4]

Hello,

I agree with WhiteStarLine. Take care when walking on the fields. At this time of the year, they may all have crops on them and farmers really don't like people walking through them.

Jan

[Dan180]

All, thank you very much for you help and advice. I will absolutely respect the rights of any private property owner and will of course only go where I can without interfering with any harvest or damaging any crops etc.

Very excited to visit and tread on the same ground as my forebears.

[Don Regiano]

Dan.  I would guess that at this time of year, it will be difficult to get to the exact spot because of the crop growing but you might just be lucky if there has been an early harvest.  From the various maps provided, it seems you could be fairly close though.  In any event, have a good time.  We will be out there later this week but not in the Fromelles area so won't be able to give you an update.

Reg

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I'm guessing that 'Rhonda' (OP, Thread Title) and 'Rhonnda' (TrenchMapper Screenshot of Sheet 36 map above) are both typos?

The screen shot of a different trench map (Don Regiano) has 'Rhondda' which I presume was the intended spelling at the time?

 

[WhiteStarLine]

18 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I'm guessing that 'Rhonda' (OP, Thread Title) and 'Rhonnda' (TrenchMapper Screenshot of Sheet 36 map above) are both typos?

Interesting observation.  All three seem correct.

I just checked the first 20 maps in TrenchMapper, which are IWM-sourced.  Of the 20, 17 call it Rhonnda, 1 calls it Rhonda and the other 2 don't show places west of Sugar Loaf.  Don's map is Linesman-sourced and shows it as Rhondda.  However, Rhondda Trench near Villers-Plouich has every TrenchMapper map showing the locations Rhondda Trench and Rhondda Post.  No variations, so perhaps the original intent was single n double d?

Cheers, Bill

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

6 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Interesting observation.  All three seem correct.

I just checked the first 20 maps in TrenchMapper, which are IWM-sourced.  Of the 20, 17 call it Rhonnda, 1 calls it Rhonda and the other 2 don't show places west of Sugar Loaf.  Don's map is Linesman-sourced and shows it as Rhondda.  However, Rhondda Trench near Villers-Plouich has every TrenchMapper map showing the locations Rhondda Trench and Rhondda Post.  No variations, so perhaps the original intent was single n double d?

Cheers, Bill

Thanks Bill,

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of a PBI sent out on a patrol to find Rhondda trench, but reporting back to say he couldn't find it.

[angelab]

Dan, don't miss the tiny Le Trou Aid Post CWGC cemetery, a little to the north of that sap exit. It is the most beautiful I have ever seen, being moated and surrounded by willow trees.