Matzhorn Ridge

[GregO]

Does anyone know anything about this battle of the Hundred Days?

Apparently they capture 30 MG08s with very little loss to the infantry.

[brianmorris547]

Do you mean Maltz Horn Ridge.

Maltz Horn Farm and Maltz Horn Ridge were attacked by 35 Infantry Brigade and 36 Infantry Brigade of 12 Div on 28/08/1918. 

This map, which I have cropped, is from the WD of 58 Div HQ which shows Maltz Horn Farm at A 6 a 8 4 and the Ridge in A 6 c & d. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2990. 

The WD of 12 Div HQ GS records the attack and mentions Machine Guns captured. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/1827.

The WD of 35 IB records that 40 MGs were captured. WO 95/1849.

Brian 

Edited 2 July , 2023 by brianmorris547
typo

[GregO]

Excellent Brian, looks like the one. The reference comes from AWM 25 947-77 but is a summary of machine gun tactics by Col Noel Charteris (Fourth Army DIMGU).

It states 'compare this to the attack on MATZHORN RIDGE where the ridge was smothered by the fire of 25 machine guns and which resulted in the Bosche being driven off without loss to our infantry and leaving 30 Bosche MG on the captured position'.

Will check the MGC accounts. Thanks.

Do you know much about the battle?

 

[Don Regiano]

Photo taken looking west to the cross marking Maltz Horn Farm.

 

 

[GregO]

Excellent, the ridge is pretty clear in this photo. Germans must have had their defences on the forward slope.

Thx.

[WhiteStarLine]

4 hours ago, GregO said:

Germans must have had their defences on the forward slope.

@Don Regiano's image shows a relatively flat area so it probably didn't make a lot of difference whether they were on the forward or reverse slope.  The exaggerated profile on this June 1918 map below plots the approximate line of advance down the re-entrant and up the ridge, towards the detailed location of the M.G. Line from Brian's unit war diary.  It shows the area astride the ridge is quite flat, as per Don's photo.

The essential thing is that by late 1917 both sides really knew how to exploit indirect machine gun fire and in the relatively mobile phase of 1918 neither side had the deep dugouts to shelter in.  An Australian sapper was caught in one of these and described it as being more dangerous to lie down than to stand up.  Monash used 64 machine guns in an indirect role a month later and even the German machine gun officer complimented it.  So the 25 guns would have been positioned so that their trajectory would deliver overhead fire at an angle known to be fatal.

Watching a firepower demonstration where tracer rounds from a single gun crested a ridge and struck the ground on the other side was eye-opening.  Having 25 Vickers deliver an sustained volume of rounds into your position, seemingly dropping down from the sky and striking you whether you lay down or stood up, would be truly unimaginable.  I am not surprised that they captured 30 MGs.

[GregO]

WhiteStarLine

Nice graphic, what package did you use?

Actually the key isn't that they are particularly dangerous, you can get cover relatively easily because they still arrive at a relatively shallow angle. I have seen a lot of modern suggestions that bullets 'plunge' but nothing contemporary with the MGCs themselves. The slope of descent at 2,800 yards with Mark VII ammunition is 1 in 2.3 or about 23 deg.

The trick to these barrages is that those in it don't really know how extensive it is nor when it is over or if it is, when it will suddenly start again.

https://bjmh.gold.ac.uk/index.php/bjmh/article/view/1689/1794

These barrage guns get very effective when connected by signals and fire can be put indirectly onto grid references within minutes of encountering a strong point.

Have you seen anything in the Third Div signals that suggests special attention to machine gun batteries? The 4th MGB run their own signalling school from inception in March 1918.

Thanks

Greg

[brianmorris547]

8 hours ago, GregO said:

 

Do you know much about the battle?

 

Greg

Only what I got from The Long Long Trail under Battles -The Battle of the Somme 1918. The Battle of Albert showed 3 Corps and listed 12 and 58 Divs. The WD of 58 Div HQ also has narratives of the actions from 08/08/1918 and records that 174 Infantry Brigade captured over 100 MGs.

Brian

EDIT

Bill

The same map as the one I posted from 58 Div, less markings, is in the WD of 12 Div HQ GS. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/1827.

Modern day map IGN 2408 E Bray Sur Somme.

Edited 2 July , 2023 by brianmorris547
additional info

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Greg,

Nice article you wrote - very scholarly.  My grandfather was with the 11th Brigade at Le Hamel and supported them from the Brigade Signals Centre.  The rest of his section went with the assault and one of his colleagues bayonetted a machine gun crew that had been missed in the darkness.

The package is the pre-release of the next version of TrenchMapper.  Let me know if you want a preview link.  You can paste in lat, lons or trenchmap references with descriptions or just trace a line on the map and it will collect the points.  The data goes via an API to a Digital Elevation Data service and then is built as an elevation profile.  We're just cleaning some rough edges out - the raw elevation needs trimming to 1 decimal place, the vertical axis needs to be configurable (molehill as a mountain or Everest as a flat plain) and action on points being dragged finished.   Then it is ready to go.

Nothing in my personal research on 3 Div Sigs and Machine Gun companies as my grandfather spent his whole time walking the Somme and Cologne rivers.  However, I have a great 5th Divisional Signal Company reminiscence that I bought in Canberra from the author's son:

Quote

As the shelling didn't stop we started off again.  Next thing we ran into a machine gun barrage.

Both sides had worked out angle fire for machine guns.  They fired up in the air and had the angle worked out for the bullets to land in a certain area - and we were in it.  A more unpleasant thing is hard to imagine.  If one laid down or crouched he only made a bigger target and with bullets coming out of the air and hitting all around, sometimes within a foot or two, one got a horrible sinking feeling in the stomach.

Diary of a Sapper, World War One Reflections of Sapper Henry W Dadswell, 5th Division Signal Company, 1stAIF.  Published by his family August 2010.

Also, there is an old thread on Indirect Machine Gun Fire on the GWF.

Cheers, Bill

[Don Regiano]

Bill is correct.  The photo was taken from the track to the east of Maltz Horn at around A. 6. b. 2. 4 on Brian's map and is on the edge of the plateau area.  The land does then drop towards Combles and Falfemont Farm.  This photo gives an idea.

 

[GregO]

Soon as I saw the Dadswell quote I contacted them. The Germans carefully into the tactic after the Kaiserschlacht.

My grandfather mentioned MG barrages falling behind him and has one of his men with a 'bullet in his foot' during a spell in the line at Villers Brettoneux which isn't self-inflicted. Could have been an accidental discharge but more likely a German MG barrage. An officer of the 4 AMGC is shot through the stomach at long range around the same time.

Thanks for the photo. A lot more defiladed areas than I would have expected.

The 12 Division have a long history of overhead MG tactics going back to at least Arras. It doesn't surprise their name turned up.

Thanks everyone.

Greg