Does anyone know the name of this chateau, near Ypres ?

[mjh]

I came across this picture when looking through the IWM photographic collections. The description says

"Chateau east of sanctuary wood, Ypres, October 1914

 

Is anyone able to identify it, and possibly give any history to it please?

 

Thanks

 

Michael

Edited 28 June , 2023 by mjh

[Knotty]

Hi Michael

I’ll throw this one in for a starter and others maybe able to help out, could it be the chateau in the area known as Stirling Castle,to the east of Sanctuary Wood?

[mjh]

That's what I was also thinking, and I do also seem to recall a thread on this chateau on this same forum.

 

[mjh]

There's another photo in the IWM collection from March 1915, where it doesn't seem to have been any more shelled or damaged since the earlier photo. 

[Knotty]

Found the old thread your referring to

There is an aerial photo down the thread and it does look suspiciously like your additional photo, albeit from a high oblique angle.

[mjh]

Thanks Knotty for the find.  It certainly seems to be chateau beukenhorst , also known as stirling castle ( grabbed the image of this earlier thread, with thanks to the original poster Lorre ).

It seems that it was the HQ for the 7th Division in Oct 1914. I wonder if it crops up anywhere else in regimental histories.

Great oblique photo btw !

[WhiteStarLine]

12 hours ago, mjh said:

I wonder if it crops up anywhere else in regimental histories.

It is mentioned at some length by the 5th Division's XV Brigade.  My great uncle was in the trenches October / November 1914 and his brigade commander occupied it and commented on how little damaged it was.  The brigade commander, Count von Gleichen, wrote a very informative work, available for free download, called THE DOINGS OF THE FIFTEENTH INFANTRY BRIGADE.  Right off topic, but he was a German count and distant relative of the Kaiser.  The quoted text below also mentions General Capper of the 7th Division, whose division had been reduced to 3,000 men.

Quote

 

The Chateau of Beukenhorst was a square white block of a place, and merits perhaps some description, as we were there for a most uncomfortable fortnight - uncomfortable as far as events and fighting went, though not so as regards living. It belonged to some people whose name I have forgotten-Baron something (Belgian) and his German wife, and it was due to this lady's nationality - so the story went - that the place had suffered so little. Personally I think that it was due to the house only being indicated on the map, whilst the stables, 200 yards off, which were perpetually being shelled, were marked in heavy black, and were a cockshy for the German guns, which were evidently laid by map and not by sight; yet the house was on a fair elevation, and must have been visible from certain points on the German side. By the same token, General Capper had had his Headquarters there for a few days, but had cleared out, I believe, because of shells. Half a dozen shrapnel had certainly hit it, but they had only chipped off some bits of stone and broken all the windows at the eastern end.

We lived in a room half below ground at the western end, which must evidently have been the housekeeper's room or servants', hall, next to the kitchen. About half the Signal Section lived in some sort of cellars close by, the other half being away with the transport. Two of these cellars were also used as a dressing station for the 7th Brigade, and wounded used to be brought in here frequently and tended by a sanitary Highlander, a corporal whose exact functions I could never discover, but who worked like a Trojan. The wounded were visited by a medical officer in the evening, and removed on stretchers every night to the ambulances who came to fetch them. Our own wounded did not come here, but were looked after just behind the trenches near the Herenthage Chateau, and taken away from there at night by our own 15th Field Ambulance, who worked all night in circumstances of much danger, but were luckily hardly ever hit.

The owners had evidently had plenty of notice before clearing out, for they had removed all the smaller articles and most of the furniture, and had rolled up the carpets and curtains and blinds, leaving only big cupboards and bare bedsteads and larger bits of furniture. These were, oddly enough, in very good taste - Louis XV. style - and only sand - papered and not polished or painted. There was a good bathroom too, and a lavatory with big basins, but much of it had been smashed by shrapnel, as it was at the east end. Our bedrooms were on the first floor, and most of them had good beds and washhand-stands, but no linen or blankets. I need hardly say that we carefully selected those at the western end of the house, whither few bullets had penetrated. But the windows there were mostly untouched, and consisted of good plate glass. Altogether the whole place gave one the idea of comfort, money, and good taste, and was an eminently satisfactory abode-bar the shells. I know that, as far as looking after the Brigade was concerned, we got through three times as much satisfactory work in the morning after we arrived as we did during all the three days we were in the little dug-out.

 

 

[mjh]

Thanks WhiteStarLine for this historical thread and a family link to the chateau in question.

Would you happen to know when it fell into German hands ? The second photo I posted from the IWM archives, is dated March 1915, and was taken by a British photographer, so I assume that it was in allied possession upto the second battle of Ypres.

I have read many accounts of "Stirling Castle", in accounts of the third battle of Ypres, but none before 1917. I would have thought that there was very little left standing of the chateau by this stage.

[AOK4]

24 minutes ago, mjh said:

Thanks WhiteStarLine for this historical thread and a family link to the chateau in question.

Would you happen to know when it fell into German hands ? The second photo I posted from the IWM archives, is dated March 1915, and was taken by a British photographer, so I assume that it was in allied possession upto the second battle of Ypres.

I have read many accounts of "Stirling Castle", in accounts of the third battle of Ypres, but none before 1917. I would have thought that there was very little left standing of the chateau by this stage.

Hello,

It was taken by the Germans early May 1915 after the British withdrawal.

Jan

[mjh]

Thanks Jan.

I've come across a couple of aerial pics, which I think show the location of the chateau, in the bottom rhs corner of both images. From the destruction, I would say, pre and post 3rd Ypres. It certainly seems that the chateau became part of a strongly defended redoubt system

Edited 1 July , 2023 by mjh

[WhiteStarLine]

Here is a September 1918 photo and a 28 December 1917 image below.

Edited 1 July , 2023 by WhiteStarLine
Corrected second date from 28 December 1918 to 28 December 1917

[HenryTheGerman]

I wonder why houses being sized and monolithical shaped like Stirling Castle are being named "Castle", even on the maps. Aren't they actually mansions or villas? Usually only large-scale constructions, often with side wings, cavalier houses and / or outbuildings are called castles. Particularly in Germany, the term castle usually refers to a (former) residence of a sovereign, i.e. a governing duke or king.

Regards

H.

[AOK4]

6 minutes ago, HenryTheGerman said:

I wonder why houses being sized and monolithical shaped like Stirling Castle are being named "Castle", even on the maps. Aren't they actually mansions or villas? Usually only large-scale constructions, often with side wings, cavalier houses and / or outbuildings are called castles. Particularly in Germany, the term castle usually refers to a (former) residence of a sovereign, i.e. a governing duke or king.

Regards

H.

Hello,

Here in Flanders, the word "kasteel" (castle) can be used for a mansion or large villa as well. Anyway "Stirling Castle" in this case is a British name. They wanted to name this particular building after "Stirling Castle" in the UK.

Often the word "Chateau" is used on British maps for mansions etc. (mostly because the maps in Belgium were made in French).

Jan

[Aurel Sercu]

Only to add that I agree (of course) with Jan. (And that I never would consider my house as being neither a castle nor a mansion. :-)

And that I have the photo in my PC archives, filename "Beukenhorst Huize Zandberg", and also one which I named "Beukenhorst NOT Herenthage". Which suggests that there must have been confusion at a time (on this the GWF ?) between the castles of Beukenhorst (Stirling Castle) and Herenthage. (The latter, somewhat similar and not that far away from the former being smaller I remember)

Aurel