How many ships could be unloaded in a day in Liverpool and other major ports?

[Felix C]

Trying to ascertain how long laden ships arriving in convoy took to be unloaded vs. pre-convoy when it was a continuous stream of individual arrivals. 

Was an assessment done during the war?

[johnboy]

Depends on how many berths there were?

Edited 27 June , 2023 by johnboy

[Felix C]

And how long laden ships lay idle awaiting a berth

[johnboy]

Try and find a map of Liverpol docks at the time, bt bear in mind manymerchant shps sed the docks as well

[Felix C]

loading would be occurring as well for the next outbound

[Waggoner]

Besides having a vacant berth, there also had to be the manpower and transportation available to move the cargo away from the pier. Stevedores and ground transportation were likely the limiting factors.

All the best,

Gary

[johnboy]

Manpower was not a problem. Men were normally taken on each morning. Transport of goods was well covered bt local carmen.

[GreyC]

Hi,

maybe one would find information in the yearly reports of the chamber of commerce (if there were any during the war) or in reports by the port authority ?

GreyC

Edited 28 June , 2023 by GreyC

[MikB]

My guess would be that you won't get an answer in number of ships that makes any sense, because they vary too much in capacity. Even tons of goods will be difficult to draw conclusions from - a ton of rubber or cotton could be a different proposition from a ton of, say, iron ore.

[AOK4]

Years ago, I had a brochure/book about Liverpool during the Great War, focusing on the harbour (as far as I can remember). As this was outside of my field of interest, I have sold it.

Anyway, just to say that there may be somewhere out there a publication that could answer your question.

Jan

[charlie2]

The three volumes of the Official History „Seaborne Trade“ way give you some answers.

9 hours ago, johnboy said:

Manpower was not a problem.

According to Seaborne Trade, quite the opposite.

Charlie

[KizmeRD]

Indeed, the restricted ability to discharge ships at Liverpool was one of the main reasons behind the establishment of the Docks Battalions -  see attached…

https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/131-8-Grieves.pdf

MB

[stevenbecker]

I would say as the war went on the Port would be developed, and such to unload and load cargo.

So the stats would change year per year

The history of Whalfies, is yet to be written, as they could be against the country they were in.

Strikes and such were not unknown, as the yanks found out and had to bring in a Mafia boss in WWII, to at home (Australia) where the whalfies striked to stop supplies being sent to the front in all wars, from WWI to WWII and what I remember during Vietnam.

S.B

[seaJane]

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime-museum may be able to assist?

sJ

[davidbohl]

7 hours ago, seaJane said:

may be able to assist?

It will be very difficult to identify the actual documents you need to pull out of their archives, even then you can only go in there with a piece of paper and a pencil to scribe down anything you might be lucky enough to read(or use a mobile photie). Using a researcher will have the same problem, and of course the cost. 

 

 

[AOK4]

5 hours ago, davidbohl said:

It will be very difficult to identify the actual documents you need to pull out of their archives, even then you can only go in there with a piece of paper and a pencil to scribe down anything you might be lucky enough to read(or use a mobile photie). Using a researcher will have the same problem, and of course the cost. 

 

 

But they may know of the publication I suggested, which may be available via a library?

[seaJane]

8 hours ago, davidbohl said:

It will be very difficult to identify the actual documents you need to pull out of their archives, even then you can only go in there with a piece of paper and a pencil to scribe down anything you might be lucky enough to read(or use a mobile photie). Using a researcher will have the same problem, and of course the cost. 

 

 

The museum has an archivist and a librarian (I know whereof I write). Helping people with such searches is their actual job. 

[KizmeRD]

The Parliamentary Archives contain a report written by Sir Norman Hill which was commissioned by the Liverpool Steamship Association for the Board of Trade, detailing causes of congestion in the Port of Liverpool. In a nutshell, his conclusions were that there was no particular shortage of berths or quay space, but rather a shortage of dock labour (exacibated by frequent disputes).

It is worth recalling that some 8,000 Liverpool dock workers joined the Army between August 1914 and January 1915, and several thousand more joined the navy. It was reported in the House of Commons that between April and June 1915, on average some 60 ships waited daily for berths, and that the situation in Liverpool was the worst of any UK port. Things didn’t improve any following the introduction of conscription, or indeed, the Convoy system - and furthermore, the need to supply Russia, as well as the establishment of American and Canadian advance bases, created even further demands on the port infrastructure. (Many tens of thousands of North American troops passed through Liverpool, prior to deployment on the Western Front).

MB

 

Edited 1 July , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Felix C]

Found a memoir and the merchant officer indicates three days to offload. 5000 ton vessel in this case. 

Thanks for the replies. 

 

[James A Pratt III]

It should be pointed out there were still a number of sailing vessels in use in WW I. So you would have things like 400 grt or so sailing ships and 4000 grt or so steamers. 

[davidbohl]

It's gone a bit quiet on this topic, looks  like my home City has come up trumps 

From the BNA