Royal Naval Division

[Rockturner]

Is there any reason why when Churchill formed the RND from naval reserves they couldn't have been trained from the outset as an amphibious landing force?

At least then some knowledge may have been gained during the period of their practical training of ship to shore landing operations.

There is also the chance that if they had undergone specialist amphibious landing training they could have been better utilized south of Gaba Tepe in collaboration with the Anzac units, rather than sitting idle on ships off Bulair.

Food for thought perhaps?

[KizmeRD]

The circumstances at the time demanded a very quick mobilisation followed by some basic infantry training prior to immediately departing to Antwerp. Training sailors to be soldiers and then in addition for them to learn to become specialists in amphibious landing techniques would have required a long and extensive period of training. They simply didn’t have the time for that, or the knowledge, or the need (as long as Britain still had access to channel ports).

Edit - It wasn’t as if there was a manual on the subject, or a body of experienced officers and NCO’s to act as amphibious warfare instructors. Tactics and equipment necessary for carrying out an opposed landing such as at Gallipoli simply didn’t yet exist. Just think of the planning, training and preparation that went into the D-day landings of WW2 - that was a world away from the situation in 1915.

MB

Edited 21 June , 2023 by KizmeRD

[58 Div Mule]

Having recently returned from a trip to Gallipoli, I recall a conversation that we had on W Beach (Lancashire Landing). We thought that, prior to 25 April 1915, the last opposed amphibious landing had probably been in Egypt in 1801. The similarity between the landing techniques, rowing boats (albeit towed in by steam pinnacles in 1915) was striking.

Unfortunately the Turks (brave men) had bolt action rifles as opposed to smoothbore flintlock muskets.

I just don’t think the need for opposed amphibious landings was even considered in 1914 when the RND was formed?
 

58 DM.

 

[KizmeRD]

1 hour ago, 58 Div Mule said:

Unfortunately the Turks (brave men) had bolt action rifles as opposed to smoothbore flintlock muskets.

I just don’t think the need for opposed amphibious landings was even considered in 1914 when the RND was formed?
 

Not to mention coastal defence artillery installations and QF howitzers!

MB

Edited 21 June , 2023 by KizmeRD

[michaeldr]

On 21/06/2023 at 05:57, Rockturner said:

if they had undergone specialist amphibious landing training they could have been better utilized south of Gaba Tepe in collaboration with the Anzac units, rather than sitting idle on ships off Bulair.

The RND were allocated to the Gulf of Saros, off Bulair, to act as a feint and to draw the Ottoman attention away from the actual landings at S, V, W, X, Y & Z Beaches. They had a degree of success in so far as Liman himself, plus some elements of his reserve, remained at Bulair for several hours after the allied landings 
In a similar fashion, the French landed at Kum Kale to act as a feint, as well as to deny the Ottomans the excellent artillery positions there which had a clear line of sight and fire into the backs of those going ashore at V Beach. The French (like the RND) were withdrawn after a short while, having achieved their given objective.

[horatio2]

On 21/06/2023 at 05:57, Rockturner said:

specialist amphibious landing training

As @KizmeRD has wisely noted, there was no such "specialist" training or cadre  which could have provided such skills. For landing in open boats, basic seamanship skills were required.

There was  recognition that the transports were not optimally loaded for the landing hence the delay at Alexandria while GHQ developed the landing sequence.

On 21/06/2023 at 05:57, Rockturner said:

sitting idle on ships off Bulair.

@michaeldr has pointed out the fallacy of this demeaning description of the RND's role on 25 April. In fact the RND was present "south of Gaba Tepe" on 25 April, with Plymouth Battalion at 'Y'Beach and Anson Batalion providing numerous beach parties. The RND were tasked by GHQ to run the 'Buair diversion' (for 24 hours) and to provide the follow-up reserves. Drake Battalion reinforced the action at Cape Helles on 26 April and the  propping up the ANZACs with four RND battalions on 28 and 29 April probably saved the day there.

The notion that the RND should have been landed as "specialist amphibians" (however defined) on D-Day flies in the face of the political and military reality.

Edited 22 June , 2023 by horatio2

[michaeldr]

As given in The Mitchell Report, the Ottomans were carefully considering where to expect landings, and they were making appropriate preparations:
“The Turkish Staff thought that a landing near the Bulair lines was probable, and kept sufficient troops in the area to resist it, while a careful watch was kept on the coast. The places in which they were confident that landings would be made were Seddel Bahr, Gaba Tepe, near Bulair and on the 'Asiatic side.'” 

And you will see from this map crop, the area which you mention [“could have been better utilized south of Gaba Tepe”] is indeed noted as a 'Possible Landing Place' – see square 202. 
However, also from The Mitchell Report, closer examination showed that the area's defences were too well prepared:
“On 19th April, "Bacchante" and "Talbot," using a kite balloon, steamed along the northern coast of the peninsula and fired a few rounds at positions where batteries and camps had been located in Chana Ovasi, Kilia Ovasi, Olive Grove … . The balloon located two new camps of more than 400 tents north-east of Krithia.”

 

[michaeldr]

The map and crop below show the Ottoman forces facing the area south of Gaba Tepe as at 1^st April 1915

[from A Brief History of the Çanakkale Campaign... by the TGS, Ankara]

[michaeldr]

On 21/06/2023 at 05:57, Rockturner said:

Is there any reason why when Churchill formed the RND from naval reserves they couldn't have been trained from the outset as an amphibious landing force?

Amphibious Operations may be a feature of warfare from the mid-twentieth century onwards, but they were to all intents and purposes unknown before the Dardanelles/Gallipoli campaign.  What the Royal Navy did have was the shipboard Royal Marines who, when circumstances required it, would provide landing parties. 

As originally envisaged by the First Lord of the Admiralty, the RND was “to make the best possible use of the surplus naval reservists” and they were to be specifically “organised for land service.” 
See Minute No.1, of 16th August 1914 from the FL to the First & Second Sea Lords, where the crucial passage is probably 
“It may ultimately be found possible in the course of the war to build up all battalions of the marine and naval brigades to the army strength of 1,070, and the organisation will readily adapt itself to this, and it must be clearly understood that this is the paramount claim upon them. All the men, whether sailors or marines, while training in the three brigades will be available if required for service afloat; but in the meantime they will be left to be organised for land service.”

At this very early stage it was envisaged that the RND would be taking part, together with the army, in the fighting on the Western Front. See the First Lord's Minute 3 [of 18th August 1914] which states in item 5
“The field training scheme must be adapted to a five months' period from 1st September, the division being expected to be ready for service on the Continent any time after 1st January.”
Churchill worked together with Kitchener at the War Office and in Minute 23 [of 20th September 1914] addressed to K, the First Lord anticipates the RND's service together with the army
“When the division is ready to take the field and you want it, it must compete with other units for its artillery according to the view you form of its readiness and efficiency.”

A force specifically trained for opposed landings from ships was not what was envisaged at all.

 

[quotes are from articles by Capt Christopher Page MA, C.Eng., F.I.Mech.E., RN Rtd, which appeared in Len Sellers' magazine RND]

[NR72]

The "plan" for training the RND was supposed to be 6 months , they had Guards officers brought in to train the men. The plan was to hand them over to the Army on completion of their training  

Then Antwerp happened and it all went out the window