Guest Karen P Posted 9 April , 2005 Share Posted 9 April , 2005 Hello !! I live in Melbourne, Australia and am just starting out trying to find out about my Grandfather's war service. I'm hoping someone reading this can steer me in the right direction to answer some of the many questions I have. Private John Hicks ( no middle name ) was an orphan in Manchester and had been in the Boys' Army before he enlisted Manchester Regiment 16th. Battalion 29.5.16 (at 16 y.o.) and was discharged 15.8.17. Presumably he was injured as his medal card is for the Silver War Badge. His Reg. No. was 41832 Cause of discharge A.O. ( or D - difficult to read) 265/17 Para A (1) Details under 'Badge' H/1/104 .......can't read middle part....7832 Ditto symbols under these numbers. " symbol under 'Medal' heading but no information Does this mean he was awarded medals??? Action taken - List H 156/1 Is there any way I can find out what injuries he received and where? We also know that he re-enlisted as he had a photo of himself marching through Germany just after the war ended and afterwards served for several years with the army in Ireland. I can't find any details of his re-enlistment. Would he have kept the same Reg. No? Does anyone know where I can find info on regiments that served in Ireland 1919-1923? Last question - my Mother believes he was a bugler/drummer. Anywhere I can find out more about this? Hoping someone can help with any of these questions????? Thanks, Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Hi Karen, Don't know about the reference but am sure someone will be able to assist. Just so I have things straight......I understand you this is your grandfather but he was discharged and you are looking for another card with his re-enlistment? Have you tried getting someone to look for post war service papers? As per my other post he may have served with the Royal Irish Constabulary. His papers for the RIC may have his previous units listed. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 HiTim, Yes, you've got it correct. I am looking for details of his re-enlistment and the Medal Index Card which should have his War and Victory Medals ( these weren't listed on his Silver War Badge card) I will post a query re the RIC. I know that his WW1 papers no longer exist. How do I find his post war service papers that you mentioned? Thanks alot for the advice. Karen Hi Karen, Don't know about the reference but am sure someone will be able to assist. Just so I have things straight......I understand you this is your grandfather but he was discharged and you are looking for another card with his re-enlistment? Have you tried getting someone to look for post war service papers? As per my other post he may have served with the Royal Irish Constabulary. His papers for the RIC may have his previous units listed. Rgds Tim D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Karen, I am not sure, but think they may be held by the Ministry of Defence at Middlesex. I think you can gain access if you are NOK. Rgds Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 I have family in England so I will see if they can chase that up with the M of D. Thanks again for all of your help. Karen Karen, I am not sure, but think they may be held by the Ministry of Defence at Middlesex. I think you can gain access if you are NOK. Rgds Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 " symbol under 'Medal' heading but no information Does this mean he was awarded medals??? my understanding was that there were sometimes seperate index cards for medals and SWB's (i may be wrong ) is this the MIC you have? hicks mic chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Karen If he was a bugler/drummer in 16/Manchester, then he will almost certainly have been a stretcher bearer when the Battalion was "in action". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 Hi Chris, Yes, this is his MIC that shows his award of a Silver War Badge. No mention of medals on this card so that's what I'm searching for now. He re-enlisted late in the war so I'm presuming that his medals will be listed on another MIC under his latter Reg. No. ( which I don't know unfortunately !!) Thanks for your interest, Karen my understanding was that there were sometimes seperate index cards for medals and SWB's (i may be wrong ) is this the MIC you have? hicks mic chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 Karen If he was a bugler/drummer in 16/Manchester, then he will almost certainly have been a stretcher bearer when the Battalion was "in action". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks John, every bit of information helps us fill in the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 The thought occurs to me that he might not have served abroad and received his injuries for which he got the SWB whilst in the UK. As Karen mentions that he was only 16 when he enlisted so, assuming this was well recorded by the Army, then he probably would not have been sent overseas. It would certainly account for why there is no other info on the MIC. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 The thought occurs to me that he might not have served abroad and received his injuries for which he got the SWB whilst in the UK. As Karen mentions that he was only 16 when he enlisted so, assuming this was well recorded by the Army, then he probably would not have been sent overseas. It would certainly account for why there is no other info on the MIC. John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, would that mean that he wasn't entitled to any medals? my understanding (don't laugh) is that the award of a SWB would entail a very serious injury which would render the recipient unable to work normally (never mind re-enlist) chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 The thought occurs to me that he might not have served abroad and received his injuries for which he got the SWB whilst in the UK. As Karen mentions that he was only 16 when he enlisted so, assuming this was well recorded by the Army, then he probably would not have been sent overseas. It would certainly account for why there is no other info on the MIC. John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The same occurred to me that he may have stayed in England but all of his children remember him saying that he fought in France at some stage. We also have a photo of him which he said was taken in Germany at the end of the war. He mentioned to his children that he had been injured, one of them thinks the head and the other thinks it was the hand!!! He died 40 years ago so their memories are a bit faded. Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 my understanding (don't laugh) is that the award of a SWB would entail a very serious injury which would render the recipient unable to work normally (never mind re-enlist) A serviceman didn't necessarily have to suffer any injury to recieve a SWB. Age, sickness, "end of contract", disability, allergies, etc. etc. could all end a service career and entitle the person to a SWB. For example, my own Gt.Grandad was awarded the SWB with no medals. His WW1 service lasted less than 3 months and he didn't even leave Manchester!!! (He was classed as unfit for active service due to a hand injury recieved in the Boer War - It didn't affect him in any other way, and he continued his service even after his wound in 1901!) Karen - if he did re-enlist at a later date and serve overseas with his new unit (yes, it's very possible) , then he would have been awarded the medals with his new unit details. Therefore, his MIC would have his new unit details, not the details of the unit from which he was previously discharged with a SWB. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karen P Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 Hi Dave, Yes , it's looking like that is the case - his medals must be on another MIC listed under his re-enlistment unit. There are no other MIC's with a Manchester Unit (other than the one for his first enlistment in 1916) so we have no idea where he re-enlisted. There are so many John Hicks' that I guess it is a dead end finding out which one is his. Thanks for your help, Karen A serviceman didn't necessarily have to suffer any injury to recieve a SWB. Age, sickness, "end of contract", disability, allergies, etc. etc. could all end a service career and entitle the person to a SWB. For example, my own Gt.Grandad was awarded the SWB with no medals. His WW1 service lasted less than 3 months and he didn't even leave Manchester!!! (He was classed as unfit for active service due to a hand injury recieved in the Boer War - It didn't affect him in any other way, and he continued his service even after his wound in 1901!) Karen - if he did re-enlist at a later date and serve overseas with his new unit (yes, it's very possible) , then he would have been awarded the medals with his new unit details. Therefore, his MIC would have his new unit details, not the details of the unit from which he was previously discharged with a SWB. Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 April , 2005 Share Posted 15 April , 2005 There are so many John Hicks' that I guess it is a dead end finding out which one is his. Not necessarily. If it's any support to you, my Gt.Grandad on my father's mother's side (the Boer War one previously mentioned was on my mother's father's side - make sense? ) had the extremely uncommon name of "Atkinson" and we only knew his initial to be "J", as he was either "John", Joseph" or "James". (Can you imagine what kind of needle in a haystack that presented us with?). Just by memories of older family members (mainly remembering a photograph that, sadly, no longer exists), it was possible, by process of elimination to actually pinpoint his MIC and, therefore, find out a lot more about his war service (and also his name - which turned out to be "Joseph"). As you can see, there's no such thing as a "dead end" in this research lark! Just stick in there - you never know what you might discover round the next corner! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 10 May , 2005 Share Posted 10 May , 2005 Not necessarily. If it's any support to you, my Gt.Grandad on my father's mother's side (the Boer War one previously mentioned was on my mother's father's side - make sense? ) had the extremely uncommon name of "Atkinson" and we only knew his initial to be "J", as he was either "John", Joseph" or "James". (Can you imagine what kind of needle in a haystack that presented us with?). Just by memories of older family members (mainly remembering a photograph that, sadly, no longer exists), it was possible, by process of elimination to actually pinpoint his MIC and, therefore, find out a lot more about his war service (and also his name - which turned out to be "Joseph"). As you can see, there's no such thing as a "dead end" in this research lark! Just stick in there - you never know what you might discover round the next corner! Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hello folks,you are all assuming he re-enlisted as john hicks,if hes been discharged he may have tried to enlist again but refused so he may have used an alias,just a thought,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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