Paisley Avenue Cemetery

[IanG1916]

Just wondering if any one knows if photos exist of Paisley Avenue Cemetery before concentration to Lonsdale Cemetery, tried looking on IWM but a lot of the photos have no description

Thanks

[Don Regiano]

4 hours ago, IanG1916 said:

Just wondering if any one knows if photos exist of Paisley Avenue Cemetery before concentration to Lonsdale Cemetery, tried looking on IWM but a lot of the photos have no description

Thanks

Haven't seen one but here is a photo I took some years ago showing the position of Paisley Avenue.

[IanG1916]

Thank you, I am hoping to visit myself soon, my great grandad was buried there and hes either been moved to Lonsdale as an unknown soldier or the grave was lost during the fighting

[Don Regiano]

8 hours ago, IanG1916 said:

moved to Lonsdale

OK.  I was actually doing research on Capt R Kirk of 6 Cheshires.  he was KiA on 13 November 1916, initially buried in Paisley Avenue and then moved to Lonsdale.  Who was your relative?

[IanG1916]

12 hours ago, Don Regiano said:

OK.  I was actually doing research on Capt R Kirk of 6 Cheshires.  he was KiA on 13 November 1916, initially buried in Paisley Avenue and then moved to Lonsdale.  Who was your relative?

Hi Don my relative is Charles Aquilla Butterworth of the 13th Cheshires, died of wounds 26/08/1916, no record of him being buried there but the Cheshires were repairing Paisley Ave that week and the early casualties were buried in Paisley Ave, later in the week most of the Cheshire's have no known grave but it was noted he would be buried close to the dressing station with a wooden cross, Harry Mist of the 13th died on the 25/08/1916 and the chaplain wrote he would be buried in a little cemetery in a valley at the south east corner of Thiepval wood with a number of his colleagues which I think is Paisley ave, his grave was also lost.

[Don Regiano]

Hi Ian.

All OK and you seem to be on top of the situation there.  I think what you have surmised is the best that can be achieved without any further evidence coming to light.  This research can be very frustrating!  I see the 13th Cheshires were raised on Wirral.  I'm on the opposite side of the County.  Good luck in finding a picture of Paisley Avenue from WW1.  I have a couple of books about 6th Cheshires but they are over on the Somme at the moment.  I will check when I am there next month to see if there happens to be a photo of Paisley Avenue (long shot!)

Regards.

Reg

[IanG1916]

Thanks Reg I have traced Charles movements from from Egypt to France, he had transferred to the 13th from the 10th on 20/07/1916 and before that he was in the 2nd Cheshire Garrison, it is frustrating and sometimes best guess is all we have.

[Matlock1418]

On 13/06/2023 at 19:43, IanG1916 said:

Just wondering if any one knows if photos exist of Paisley Avenue Cemetery before concentration to Lonsdale Cemetery, tried looking on IWM but a lot of the photos have no description

Have you tried asking CWGC?  Their photo archive may perhaps extend beyond the final cemeteries.  Just a speculative thought.

M

[jay dubaya]

I can confirm the CWGC archive doesn’t appear to hold anything for Paisley Avenue Cemetery. Another approach may be to seek individuals who were buried there prior to concentration and who’s family may have had a DGRE photo which may still exist… it’s a needle in a haystack scenario but worth considering.

[IanG1916]

3 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Have you tried asking CWGC?  Their photo archive may perhaps extend beyond the final cemeteries.  Just a speculative thought.

M

2 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

I can confirm the CWGC archive doesn’t appear to hold anything for Paisley Avenue Cemetery. Another approach may be to seek individuals who were buried there prior to concentration and who’s family may have had a DGRE photo which may still exist… it’s a needle in a haystack scenario but worth considering.

Thank you both for replying, looks like it maybe a needle in a haystack.

[jlang]

This old thread may be useful:

 

Is it not worth trying the WFA  and/or National Library of Scotland  overlaying georeferenced trench maps/modern maps web pages with a selection of trench maps from say May 1916 to the end of the war the war to show the trench after which the cemeteries were named and maybe the cemeteries themselves?

[IanG1916]

16 hours ago, jlang said:

This old thread may be useful:

 

Is it not worth trying the WFA  and/or National Library of Scotland  overlaying georeferenced trench maps/modern maps web pages with a selection of trench maps from say May 1916 to the end of the war the war to show the trench after which the cemeteries were named and maybe the cemeteries themselves?

Thanks I have all the concentration documents from both Paisley ave and hill side, I know where the cemetery was as they have the map reference on them and I have the trench layout and relevant dressing stations, but when the graves where concentrated there was a team the graves registration unit GRU and some photos were taken by Ivan Bawtree and was asking if any were taken at Paisley Ave as most of the photos have no description of where they were taken on the IWM website

[KIRKY]

On 19/06/2023 at 15:04, IanG1916 said:

Thanks I have all the concentration documents from both Paisley ave and hill side, I know where the cemetery was as they have the map reference on them and I have the trench layout and relevant dressing stations, but when the graves where concentrated there was a team the graves registration unit GRU and some photos were taken by Ivan Bawtree and was asking if any were taken at Paisley Ave as most of the photos have no description of where they were taken on the IWM website

Can you let me have the map reference for the cemetery as I have a casualty medal moved from the Paisley Cemetery to Lonsdale.

Thanks in advance

Tony

[IanG1916]

55 minutes ago, KIRKY said:

Can you let me have the map reference for the cemetery as I have a casualty medal moved from the Paisley Cemetery to Lonsdale.

Thanks in advance

Tony

Hi Tony

The map ref for Paisley Ave Cemetery is 57d.Q.30.d.3.2 -  when you enter the 3 and the 2 put a 0 before the number, I have the Paisley Ave concentration records who is it you have the medal for, my Gt Grandad Charles Aquilla Butterworth 13th Cheshire's was buried in Paisley Ave but the grave was lost so he maybe one of the unknowns moved to Lonsdale

[BillyH]

On 15/06/2023 at 12:00, IanG1916 said:

Harry Mist of the 13th died on the 25/08/1916 and the chaplain wrote he would be buried in a little cemetery in a valley at the south east corner of Thiepval wood with a number of his colleagues which I think is Paisley ave, his grave was also lost.

Harry Mist was actually said at the time to have been buried at Johnston's Post, Thiepval Wood - although as you say his grave was later lost.

BillyH.

Edited 13 September , 2023 by BillyH

[IanG1916]

12 hours ago, BillyH said:

Harry Mist was actually said at the time to have been buried at Johnston's Post, Thiepval Wood - although as you say his grave was later lost.

BillyH.

Hi Billy, I believe Johnstons Post was at 57d.Q.30.d.6.3, which is further south of the wood, Harry was killed in action and the dressing station then was in Paisley Ave and would not need evacuation, the extract I have is below 

My Great grandad died on 26/08/1916 a day later at 9.30 in the morning, the war diary states they were repairing paisley ave trench that week,  I suspect they would of been buried in the same place and he also had a wooden cross erected, would any burials at Johnstons post be the hillside cemetery. most of the soldiers buried there are accounted for, but any information you have will be useful

[WhiteStarLine]

16 hours ago, IanG1916 said:

when you enter the 3 and the 2 put a 0 before the number

That will change the location by around 160 yards, so be careful with that.  TrenchMapper has Paisley and Lonsdale (click to enlarge image).  The aerial shows a small triangle of trenches from a 1918 aerial where @IanG1916 says Johnston's was located.  Cheers, Bill.

 

 

[IanG1916]

Thanks Bill, great maps would there be burials at Johnston post when Paisley Ave cemetery is next to it, 13th Cheshire's between 19th August and 26th August 1916 ended up in Paisley Ave then Lonsdale, 8 of the Cheshires from 24th August to 26th August were not identified or graves lost so always assumed they would been originally buried in Paisley Ave Cemetery

[KIRKY]

On 14/09/2023 at 12:59, WhiteStarLine said:

That will change the location by around 160 yards, so be careful with that.  TrenchMapper has Paisley and Lonsdale (click to enlarge image).  The aerial shows a small triangle of trenches from a 1918 aerial where @IanG1916 says Johnston's was located.  Cheers, Bill.

 

 

So they are now in the wood?

tony