Lawrence Lauder Carter 29 Squadron

[Red Gate]

According to his service record Carter was with 29 Squadron from 17 January 1917 to 26 February when he was seriously wounded.  I have seen a reference to him having scored five victories although he doesn’t feature in the book Above the Trenches.  Tryggve Gran’s book Under Britisk Flag describes an action in which (using Google Translate!) it suggests that he encountered a group of 15 Albatroses, brought down 3 of them before he was downed and wounded by a fourth.  
 

Please is anyone able to help by providing any more information on the action on 26 February and details of his other two victories if indeed he did have five in total.

 

[topgun1918]

I have nothing for him in my claims database so referred to the DH2 book from Cross and Cockade.  The two entries for Carter are:

D.H.2 7849 - on 3 February 1917 his patrol drove down six EA east of Arras at 13:40 then Carter force-landed outside his aerodrome at 15:15.  This engagement does not appear to have merited a mention in RFC Communique number 28. 

D.H.2 A2551 - 26 February 1917 damaged on 08:40 patrol, Carter wounded in combat and force-landed near Duissans; Lieut Norman Birks landed alongside in D.H.2 7939.  

On the face of it, he was not credited with any victories.

Graeme

 

 

[Red Gate]

Thank you for that information Graeme.  I cannot say that I was 100% surprised that things on 26 February weren’t exactly how Gran described them!  
 

On a slightly different tack, what would normally have happened to potential claims if the pilot had himself been shot down and killed or taken prisoner after a victory.  Would someone else claim it on their posthumous behalf or would it just go unclaimed?  

[topgun1918]

Usually the leader of the returning patrol would make out a report, detailing the engagement and showing who claimed what.  In this instance, I have no record of any decisive victories being claimed on 26 February.

Graeme

 

[sadbrewer]

Can't help with the direct query, but I'll include this just in case you haven't seen it before.

Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive.

 

[Red Gate]

Thank you both for your replies and I hadn’t actually seen those two specific cuttings before.  He did have a significant post war career but never fully recovered from his crash. He died about 15 months later, I believe from meningitis.   

[Matlock1418]

On 06/06/2023 at 23:29, Red Gate said:

According to his service record Carter was with 29 Squadron from 17 January 1917 to 26 February when he was seriously wounded.

Casualty card at RAF Museum StoryVault https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/carter-l.l - severe leg wound = but no mention of any victories [though probably not that unsurprising in such a record]  Likewise his Casualty Form: https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/2862 - GSW L thigh & calf

On 08/06/2023 at 13:31, sadbrewer said:

 

As is not uncommon within a newspaper(s) an error with his second forename.

Births at FreeBMD: Jun 1898 Carter, Lawrence Lauder  Devizes 5a 9 

National Archives, Officer's papers: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8199641 - Lawrence Lauder CARTER

Disability pension claim Pension Index Card at WFA/Fold3: https://www.fold3.com/image/689279247 - Lawrence Lauder CARTER

M

Edited 11 June , 2023 by Matlock1418

[Max Renault]

If Carter had made anything close to the kind of claim Gran depicts for him, and not had it immediately disbelieved, it would have appeared in 'Comic Cuts', which liked that kind of story. Gran, as ever, talks a lot of nonsense- whether Carter spun him that nonsense first we can only guess at.

 

Communique 28 is for 1916, but 73 and 74 don't have anything for a 3rd February 1917 engagement either.

 

Henshaw has Carter being 'shot up' by Jasta Boelcke on the 26th, though it's an entry Henshaw clearly could not find full details about.

[Max Renault]

I'd also add that the claim system was nothing remotely like some sort of fair game,. If a pilot was not around to put in their claim, then no claim would ever be made. By the same token, if a pilot could lie about a claim and get away with it, it would go in.

[alex revell]

Max. 

Dangerous to generalise re claims being allowed. Some CO's were very strict, others not so. Scott allowed anything by Bishop. Balcombe Brown while CO of 56 Sqdn refused McCudden 's claim of a Rumpler over Ervillers on 25 Jan 1918 until confirmation came in from ground sources, which it eventually did. McCudden was furious that his word should be questioned, IMO justifiably so in view of his record.

[Max Renault]

My use of 'get away with it' involved everything a pilot might need to make a claim work- including a conniving or complaint CO if need be. That's how the system worked. That what you could get away with varied between squadrons is significant of course.

Edited 13 June , 2023 by Max Renault