arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 This came from a car boot I must point out I will probably swap it as it’s too big and you can’t keep everything if you are against swapping / selling to buy other items then done help as simple as that it has a coat of arms and the motto ithink mediocria firma I may its dated 1916 and named by artist ? Or Soldier Percy C H Bacon I may have that wrong I have tried to do some Google searches to no avail why is so large at bottom of frame or dies the motto mean he was a casualty It’s not easy to photo as I suspect most of the dirt on the inside of the glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 You might be best advised to post this on “The Culture Pages” intended for queries of this nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Thank you I didn’t realiza there was a culture pages section thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 30 May , 2023 Admin Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Moved and duplicate thread removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Thank you I put it here cos it was date. 1916 and a soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 (edited) The Coat of Arms is that of the Bacon family and with the name at the bottom being Percy Bacon think we are looking for an officer of that name. Edited 30 May , 2023 by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 1911 Census of England and Wales has a 50 year old Percy Charles Haydon Bacon, who records his occupation as Ecclesiastical Artist. He is probably the painter. Now going out so will delve a bit deeper later. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 The nearest I can get as far as the family crest goes is a slightly less ornate version of the one in the painting. The vast majority of Bacon heraldry have a helmet above the shield. Many also seem to have the red hand such as the one attached. Considering the crest, I wonder if the artist, which seems very likely Percy Charles Haydon Bacon, as identified by Peter, is related to the sitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 I think you guys have hit the nail on the head im going to search for any officers of the Bacon family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Quite a few shame no badges on uniform don’t know if the buttons help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 I think it is Clarence Haydon Bacon of the Northamptonshire Regiment. This fits with the initials, C H Bacon, and was the son of Percy who has signed he portrait which he painted. In short he painted a portrait of his son in 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 This is the artist Pery Charles Haydon Bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Gunner Yet gain you have come up trumps !! That is fantastic and now a picture from a car boot sale can have its name again. If you are ever down in Sunny Sussex I will buy you an ice cream or a beer Thangs again and also to Prc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Clarence on the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 (edited) Clarence isn't Percy's son but his Nephew. Makes no difference to the outcome, great result. Edited 30 May , 2023 by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 If you would like me to send a picture of the portrait to the Bacon family tree on Ancestry I can do so.... Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittinganddeath Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Sometimes shields are differenced to distinguish between different branches of the same family. Medieval heraldry has specific symbols (cadency) to show different descendants of an original armigerous person, but as far as I know a hand is not one of them. Maybe the hand in the Bacon arms was simply too hard to render in the art style used in this painting. Still, cadet branches can often be visually linked to the main branch because their arms are the same but with a small addition. More on the Bacon arms here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 Northampton Museums, who retain all image rights, have added the same picture of Clarence Bacon to their flickr account. Note they spell his middle name as HaydEn whereas MiC, Medal Rolls, London Gazette and Army Lists have him as HaydOn. https://www.flickr.com/photos/northampton_museum/3004187161/in/photostream/ On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 22 year old Second Lieutenant Clarence Haydon Bacon, born Canada, was recorded in barracks at Wellington, Nilgiris, India, with the 1st Battalion Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. He was then unmarried. (Note this would place his birth as c1888/89 so either the age is incorrect or date of birth on the Northamptonshire Museums website, (02/07/1887), is incorrect. The angles that the painting has been photographed at makes doing a side by side a bit difficult, so here's a rough and ready attempt. No new IP is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owners. The painter, although he states himself to be an artist, (and employer) on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 Censuses, is best known for the stained glass workshop he set up, rather than his own paintings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Bacon_Brothers On the 1881 Census of England & Wales, aged 20, he is recorded as a designer of stained glass The family appears to have been from relatively lowly beginnings, so I suspect the coat of arms is a bit of an affectation. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 1 hour ago, PRC said: Northampton Museums, who retain all image rights, have added the same picture of Clarence Bacon to their flickr account. Note they spell his middle name as HaydEn whereas MiC, Medal Rolls, London Gazette and Army Lists have him as HaydOn. https://www.flickr.com/photos/northampton_museum/3004187161/in/photostream/ On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 22 year old Second Lieutenant Clarence Haydon Bacon, born Canada, was recorded in barracks at Wellington, Nilgiris, India, with the 1st Battalion Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. He was then unmarried. (Note this would place his birth as c1888/89 so either the age is incorrect or date of birth on the Northamptonshire Museums website, (02/07/1887), is incorrect. The angles that the painting has been photographed at makes doing a side by side a bit difficult, so here's a rough and ready attempt. No new IP is claimed for the above and all image rights remain with the current owners. The painter, although he states himself to be an artist, (and employer) on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 Censuses, is best known for the stained glass workshop he set up, rather than his own paintings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Bacon_Brothers On the 1881 Census of England & Wales, aged 20, he is recorded as a designer of stained glass The family appears to have been from relatively lowly beginnings, so I suspect the coat of arms is a bit of an affectation. Cheers, Peter Well done Peter, that’s him alright. Definitely a ranker with high aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 30 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2023 what a super result thanks every one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 1 hour ago, arantxa said: what a super result thanks every one Bacon butties all round then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 31 May , 2023 Share Posted 31 May , 2023 22 hours ago, arantxa said: I will probably swap it as it’s too big and you can’t keep everything Hi arantxa. I note you are considering swapping or selling the portrait. Clarence has four family trees on Ancestry and Percy, twenty. I'm sure a number would bite your hand off to secure the portrait. If you would like my help contacting any of them, as I subscribe, please don't hesitate to ask. Alternatively, I'm in a military art group with 1600 members and am sure it would attract some interest. Again, let me know if I can be of assistance. Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arantxa Posted 31 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2023 Thank you.i will try that ....its only that its so big approx 60 inches x 40 inches and very heavy and a very large piece of glass ..i just dont have room in the house ..i have a lot of framed pictures already in the loft ...i may well back to you on that kind offer ... Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerchantOldSalt Posted 31 May , 2023 Share Posted 31 May , 2023 18 hours ago, knittinganddeath said: Sometimes shields are differenced to distinguish between different branches of the same family. Medieval heraldry has specific symbols (cadency) to show different descendants of an original armigerous person, but as far as I know a hand is not one of them. Maybe the hand in the Bacon arms was simply too hard to render in the art style used in this painting. Still, cadet branches can often be visually linked to the main branch because their arms are the same but with a small addition. More on the Bacon arms here. The red hand, or "bloody hand of Ulster" as it is known in heraldry is a mark of Baronetcy, and doesn't apply to the chap in the painting though he is from another branch of the same family. A Baronet is a hereditary title awarded by the British Crown but is not a peerage. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knittinganddeath Posted 31 May , 2023 Share Posted 31 May , 2023 2 minutes ago, MerchantOldSalt said: The red hand, or "bloody hand of Ulster" as it is known in heraldry is a mark of Baronetcy Thanks for this clarification. I wrote my master's thesis about medieval Arthurian heraldry, and Arthurian arms tend to be extremely basic. No red hands among the knights of the Round Table for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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