Result of a Court Martial- November 1914- referral to a higher court- but which one?

[David_Blanchard]

I am trying to establish the outcome of a court martial into a missing heavy ambulance waggon that bolted towards enemy lines on 12 November 1914 near Zillebeke. The case is outlined in the war diary of the 6th Cavalry Field Ambulance. The outcome seems to be referral to a higher court. However, I am unfamilair with army legal procedures and the war diary entry (which I enclose) sentenced two drivers of the missing ambulance to a higher court, I think, F S Court.

Could some kind sole explain to me what this was- and where I might find the outcome of this further trail?

 

David 

 

[tullybrone]

1 hour ago, David_Blanchard said:

I am trying to establish the outcome of a court martial into a missing heavy ambulance waggon that bolted towards enemy lines on 12 November 1914 near Zillebeke. The case is outlined in the war diary of the 6th Cavalry Field Ambulance. The outcome seems to be referral to a higher court. However, I am unfamilair with army legal procedures and the war diary entry (which I enclose) sentenced two drivers of the missing ambulance to a higher court, I think, F S Court.

Could some kind sole explain to me what this was- and where I might find the outcome of this further trail?

 

David 

 

Hi,

I think your F S Court is actually FGCM - Field General Court Martial.

The FGCM registers are available on either Ancestry or findmypast so you should be able to discover the outcome. If you post the soldiers names member may be able to assist.

You have posted an extract referring to a Court of Enquiry - a fact finding procedure - that recommended a disciplinary process ought to be commenced either by way of the CO dealing with the offenders or by the preferred option of referring the matter to FGCM where the powers of punishment were stronger.

The actual records of British FGCM are no longer in existence for the most part.

Steve 

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

Hi Steve, 

 

you are correct- found this out on Twitter just now. I have tried Ancestry for the two men, but looks as though you need worldwide access for court martials

The two men are: 

 

Driver H Gamble ASC no 328 and Driver R H Bristow no 26911. 
 

looking through records on FMP found this on Bristow - couldn’t  find MIC for either.

 

Many thanks,

 

David 
 

Edited 2 May , 2023 by David_Blanchard

[tullybrone]

Hi,

I can’t see the MIC either. Perhaps the FGCM register will explain - if they received a severe sentence perhaps their medal entitlement was cancelled for misconduct. 

My 18 year old gf (army age 19) appeared before a FGCM in June 1915 just 3 weeks after his unit arrived in BEF. He pleaded guilty to sleeping at his post whilst on guard duty (Field Artillery out of the line) and was sentenced to 90 days FP No 1. It did not effect his campaign medal entitlement 

Steve

Edited 2 May , 2023 by tullybrone

[Matlock1418]

On 02/05/2023 at 16:18, David_Blanchard said:

Driver R H Bristow no 26911. 
 

looking through records on FMP found this on Bristow - couldn’t  find MIC

MIC [1914 Star and clasp - landed 6/10/14] for RH BRISTOW, 6th Cav Fd Amb ASC T/26911, Essex Regiment 58216 - Medal forfeited but later restored

Thence ... Pension index card for Reginald Hugh BRISTOW, 373089 Labour Corps, 11946 Middlesex Regt., 58216 Essex Regt.

then ... MIC {BWM & VM and SWB] - Reginald H BRISTOW, 11976 East Surrey Regt, 373089 Labour Corps

All available from WFA/Fold3

Please don't ask me to explain - ??? - as I am puzzled by all those numbers and units! 

M

Edited 5 May , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, David_Blanchard said:

Driver H Gamble ASC no 328

MIC [1914 Star - landed 6/10/14] for a Herbert GAMBLE, 6th Cav Fd Amb ASC, T1/SR/705

Available at WFA/Fold3

- Might this perhaps be the same chap?

M

Edited 2 May , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On Ancestry (Free access once free account is set up:

Gamble:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1805527:1262?_phsrc=bDw1116&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=herbert+&gsln=gamble&ml_rpos=8&queryId=71a5202609836aa19072fa9a9366d7ae

Bristow:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/698291:1262?_phsrc=bDw1119&_phstart=successSource&gsln=B*&ml_rpos=4&queryId=5cd10551cc85de1449aa0efceffec18f

and

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1633218:1262?_phsrc=bDw1121&_phstart=successSource&gsln=B*&ml_rpos=2&queryId=74e94f9d709be9b84d75cd1c4b53b734

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

On Ancestry (Free access once free account is set up:

Gamble:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1805527:1262?_phsrc=bDw1116&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=herbert+&gsln=gamble&ml_rpos=8&queryId=71a5202609836aa19072fa9a9366d7ae

Bristow:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/698291:1262?_phsrc=bDw1119&_phstart=successSource&gsln=B*&ml_rpos=4&queryId=5cd10551cc85de1449aa0efceffec18f

and

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1633218:1262?_phsrc=bDw1121&_phstart=successSource&gsln=B*&ml_rpos=2&queryId=74e94f9d709be9b84d75cd1c4b53b734

Thanks Dai. 

OP has access to Ancestry so the MIC should be a breeze for them.

Pension card on WFA/Fold3 though.

M

[David_Blanchard]

Excellent, gents. I take it most of the information was via Ancestry? Its just that I couldn't find it!

 

 

David 

[David_Blanchard]

Further in the diary the outcome of the Court of Enquiry is given- the men sentenced to 28 days field punishment. Would the case still have to pass to the Field General Court Martial?

 

 

Edited 4 May , 2023 by David_Blanchard

[tullybrone]

3 hours ago, David_Blanchard said:

Further in the diary the outcome of the Court of Enquiry is given- the men sentenced to 28 days field punishment. Would the case still have to pass to the Field General Court Martial?

 

 

As stated above a court of enquiry was a fact finding exercise that could recommend the commencement of military discipline proceedings. 

The quoted extract does not specify whether the CO or a tribunal (FGCM) awarded the sentence of FP (doesn’t say whether No 1 or No 2).

IIRC a CO could award up to 28 days FP so unless you find the men listed in the FGCM register it’s more likely it was a CO award. Forum member @FROGSMILE might have a better informed view.

Steve

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks Steve,

 

David

[brianmorris547]

The WDs of 3 Cav Div A&QMG have Routine Orders but the entries relating to FGCMs are blacked out. The Corps A&QMG might show something.

Brian

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks Brian,

 

David