What happened after Vimy Ridge ?

[Simon Cains]

Are there good accounts somewhere online of what happened in the days and months after the capture of Vimy Ridge ?  Most books stop right after the capture.  I would like to think it was a valuable achievement, it gave a great view down onto the plain and coalfields, which could have been a follow-up target ?  Was that ever in the grand plan for Vimy Ridge ?

An old French guidebook tells me there were "powerful counter-attacks against the eastern edge which were repulsed" in the days after the capture. The Germans pulled back to a new line, then not much seemed to happen except attacks at Gavrelle, and later Oppy Wood.  The Arras attacks had to continue in May to support the French, so this area overlooked by Vimy Ridge towards Lens seems to be a better spot than continuing east of Arras.  Thanks, this might start an interesting discussion.

[BradleyShoebottom]

Vimy Ridge was all part of the greater Battle of Arras. See: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1917)

Falls, C. (1992) [1940]. Military Operations France and Belgium 1917: The German Retreat to the Hindenburg line and the Battles of Arras. History of the Great War Based on Official Documents by Direction of the Historical Section of the Committee of Imperial Defence. Vol. I (Imperial War Museum and Battery Press ed.). London: HMSO. ISBN 0-89839-180-6.

 

Nicholson, G.W.L. Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War: Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919. Ottawa: Roger Duhamel, Queen’s Printer and Controller of Stationery, Ottawa, 1962. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/official-military-history-lineages/official-histories/book-1964-expeditionary.html.

 

 

[Simon Cains]

Hi, yes I have followed that ( my great-grandfather was killed at Wancourt), the attacks kept pushing east through May 1917.  But the easiest sector specifically to keep advancing would have been in front of Vimy ridge with that great observation from above, push north-east towards Lens.  I wondered why that sector wasn't chosen ?    The Wiki page on Vimy Ridge says "The Germans did not see the capture of Vimy Ridge by the Canadian Corps as a loss. Contemporary German sources viewed the action, at worst, as a draw, given that no breakthrough occurred following the attack.[124] "

Edited 28 April , 2023 by Simon Cains
Adding more to my own reply.

[BradleyShoebottom]

Simon, The Canadians kept pushing towards Arleux in the south (April 30-May 1) and Wancourt in the suburbs of Lens (44th Bn attack in the "Triangle") in May 50.42396061041063, 2.8198747385649066. 

[Simon Cains]

On 28/04/2023 at 02:50, BradleyShoebottom said:

Vimy Ridge was all part of the greater Battle of Arras. See: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1917)

Falls, C. (1992) [1940]. Military Operations France and Belgium 1917: The German Retreat to the Hindenburg line and the Battles of Arras. History of the Great War Based on Official Documents by Direction of the Historical Section of the Committee of Imperial Defence. Vol. I (Imperial War Museum and Battery Press ed.). London: HMSO. ISBN 0-89839-180-6.

 

Nicholson, G.W.L. Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War: Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919. Ottawa: Roger Duhamel, Queen’s Printer and Controller of Stationery, Ottawa, 1962. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/official-military-history-lineages/official-histories/book-1964-expeditionary.html.

 

 

Thanks, that free online Canadian account certainly fills in the blanks between the books about individual battles.  Is the British official history also available online ?

[16thBNCanScotJim]

Ok,  I would love to tag onto this and ask a follow-up question.  Does anyone know who garrisoned the line in that sector Arleaux-Oppy when the Canadian Corp was pulled out and up to Ypres- Passchendale battles?  I know that after Passchendale the Cancorp returned to the Vimy sector and fortified it in preparation for the expected German spring  offensive of 1918.  Of note…and when it came, Vimy held and not an inch of ground was lost.

 

Jim

[Don Regiano]

2 hours ago, Simon Cains said:

Is the British official history also available online ?

quite a few - search on archive .org

https://ia601401.us.archive.org/33/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.210683/2015.210683.Military-Operations.pdf

[battle of loos]

Good evening

I suppose that the effort to push north-east of Vimy Ridge is simply impossible because of an area highly urbanized by the "corons" (mining cities that extended from Lens to Douai) (area achured in purple).

a new thrust was made on August 15, 1917 on hill 70 east of Lens and the city of Lens.
the only gain was the capture of Hill 70.
the advances in Lens by the Canadians were almost nil.

It was not until October 1918 that the Germans abandoned this area to stop only in Valenciennes on November 11, 1918.

a new thrust was made on August 15, 1917 on hill 70 east of Lens and the city of Lens.
the only gain was the capture of Hill 70.
the advances in Lens by the Canadians were almost nil.
It was not until October 1918 that the Germans abandoned this area to stop only in Valenciennes on November 11, 1918.

regards

michel

[Fattyowls]

On 27/04/2023 at 21:51, Simon Cains said:

an interesting discussion

Simon, it is an interesting discussion and one I've pondered over the years as I have looked out over the plain from the Canadian Memorial. The attempts to push on through Arleux, Gavrelle and Oppy were not for want of trying, and as Michel points out the urban industrial area to the north was difficult; as the Germans would find 25 years late at Stalingrad. I started to get a perspective when I looked back to Vimy from just in front the German front line at Oppy. The ridge is not parallel to the German positions but recedes and the German first line is on a shallow reverse slope which somewhat nulifies observation from the Farbus end of the ridge. I suspect the Germans were very careful to drop back far enough to nulify the domination of the ridge at least in part, and the difficulties the attacking troops during late April and early May bear this out. Looking at the attack by the 1st Footballers battalion at Oppy in late April it appears that the Germans kept their main forces further back and mounted fierce counterattacks when the forward positions were occupied. 

Pete.

The ridge from just south of Oppy Wood, which can be seen on the right of picture, with the slag heaps on the double crassier position near Loos just to the left.

 

[Simon Cains]

The Canadian history describes the following days very well "The next day, accepting the loss of Vimy Ridge as permanent, he ordered a general withdrawal to the German Third Position, which opposite the Canadians followed the Oppy-Mericourt line and the Avion Switch, encircling the western suburbs of Lens. All villages in the vicinity were completely cleared of civilians, and except for leaving light rearguards and enough guns to simulate normal activity the Germans completed the move on the night of 12-13 April. This was far enough into the level plain to deprive the Canadians of effective observation from the Ridge, and it meant that with respect to terrain defender and attacker would meet on equal terms. The new trenches though not deep were well protected by wire and manned with fresh troops. It would be suicidal to attack such a strong position without intensive artillery preparation; and this would have to wait until the almost obliterated roads had been rebuilt to allow heavy guns and ammunition to come forward. Even with 5000 men working on them, these would not be passable for several days. At the most, the British and Canadian forces could only maintain contact with the retiring enemy; this they did by vigorous patrolling and limited advances, firmly consolidating the additional ground gained."   

So the Germans were forced to quickly pull back to beyond clear sight of the ridge.

I am still confused why a French guidebook ( Michelin 1920?) reprinted by Naval and Military Press said there were "powerful (German) counter-attacks against the eastern edge which were repulsed", I am going to assume that is wrong.  But it does have good coverage of the French actions in this area through the war such as in 1915, and photos and descriptions of the area in 1920, describes what a tourist would see then.   Thanks everyone.