3rd Devon Regiment, 1913 - regimental band

[JaneyH]

I have a letter of reference for my great-grandfather, written by the Bandmaster (A.W. Lowther) of the Band of the 3rd Devon Regiment, dated April 1913. He had served in the band for five years, and played the flute and piccolo.

The picture below is him - and he's holding a piccolo. From a quick search online I believe that his cap badge - which features a harp - indicates that he was a bandsman. My first question is: could he have been in the regimental band without having been a serving soldier? He might possibly have been a reservist, but at this time he was working full-time as a teacher at the Starcross Asylum near Exeter.

My second question relates to George's time when he was the bandmaster of the Starcross Asylum band (which I believe he founded). The uniform is clearly not a military one, but is George's cap badge that of the Devon Regiment? While this is a close-up from a photo of the whole band, he is the only one to have a cap badge. Question two: If this is a Devon Regiment cap badge, why would he be wearing it somewhere other than with the band of the Devon Regiment?

Finally - and most speculatively of all - is this last photo. George is second from the right on the back row.

Finally, is this still a Devon Regiment uniform - possibly an old one? I hesitate over this one because George was also into amateur dramatics, and from my sceptical position at least, this could just as easily be dressing-up for the stage as it could be a real regimental band photo. Yes, there are brass instruments on the floor at the front, and yes, this could be formal dress uniform, but I'm unsure.

All thoughts and contributions are most welcome.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, JaneyH said:

I have a letter of reference for my great-grandfather, written by the Bandmaster (A.W. Lowther) of the Band of the 3rd Devon Regiment, dated April 1913. He had served in the band for five years, and played the flute and piccolo.

The picture below is him - and he's holding a piccolo. From a quick search online I believe that his cap badge - which features a harp - indicates that he was a bandsman. My first question is: could he have been in the regimental band without having been a serving soldier? He might possibly have been a reservist, but at this time he was working full-time as a teacher at the Starcross Asylum near Exeter.

My second question relates to George's time when he was the bandmaster of the Starcross Asylum band (which I believe he founded). The uniform is clearly not a military one, but is George's cap badge that of the Devon Regiment? While this is a close-up from a photo of the whole band, he is the only one to have a cap badge. Question two: If this is a Devon Regiment cap badge, why would he be wearing it somewhere other than with the band of the Devon Regiment?

Finally - and most speculatively of all - is this last photo. George is second from the right on the back row.

Finally, is this still a Devon Regiment uniform - possibly an old one? I hesitate over this one because George was also into amateur dramatics, and from my sceptical position at least, this could just as easily be dressing-up for the stage as it could be a real regimental band photo. Yes, there are brass instruments on the floor at the front, and yes, this could be formal dress uniform, but I'm unsure.

All thoughts and contributions are most welcome.

 

 

The first two photos show the uniforms of civilian bands.  The first one is a Victorian style that fell from popularity between the 2nd Boer War and WW1, although some bands were still using it during the course of the war.

The round forage cap had previously been a standard pattern used by Army officers and the most senior NCOs between the Crimean War and shortly after the 2nd Boer War started, when it was replaced by a so-called ‘naval’ pattern (meaning with a top of wider dimensions than the head band) that is still in use today.  The heavily laced hip length ‘patrol jacket’ he wears was also typical of the same period.

The star cap badge with overlaid lyre (not harp) was quite generic and popular with civilian bands.  It can be seen both with and without crown.

The final photo has a Ruritanian look typical of some Operas and other theatrical productions. It is not a British uniform, nor does it have the style of a civilian band.  It fits entirely with amateur dramatics.

Edited 21 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[JaneyH]

Many thanks for your insight. I'm glad that you've placed the third photo firmly in the am-dram category. It's a great picture, but seemed a bit of a stretch to be serious. I have vague recollections watching the Prisoner of Zenda as a child, so I picked up on the Ruritania reference. 

[JaneyH]

Here's the letter of reference he received in 1913.

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, JaneyH said:

Many thanks for your insight. I'm glad that you've placed the third photo firmly in the am-dram category. It's a great picture, but seemed a bit of a stretch to be serious. I have vague recollections watching the Prisoner of Zenda as a child, so I picked up on the Ruritania reference. 

Yes the Prisoner of Zenda would resonate with that picture.

One final point I would make is that the first photo is especially typical of the civilian bands pre WW1, as the 2nd Boer War had been a very jingoistic era and that was reflected by a strong fashion to emulate military uniforms in the closest way possible.  It was expensive though, and as Britain’s power declined so did the fashion for such elaborate uniforms on civilian bandsmen.

Edited 21 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, JaneyH said:

Here's the letter of reference he received in 1913.

It’s interesting to see and laid out in a very typical style for a reference.  It’s a pity you don’t have a photo of him in Devonshire Regiment uniform.  The 3rd Battalion were a Militia unit (civilian auxiliaries with a modicum of training, who were on call in readiness for national emergencies) between 1881, and 1908, when the Militia was stood down and replaced by ‘Special Reserve’ auxiliary units with a different purpose. 

Edited 22 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[JaneyH]

Thanks again. Given the reference, do you think he was actually a member of the regimental band? The letter seems to suggest as much, but I have no other photos to help. He was much appreciated in his musical contributions at Starcross (I have a separate reference letter for that).

In WW1 itself he enlisted in the Royal Marine Engineers in June 1918 - aged 45, and was based at Shoreham in Sussex. 

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, JaneyH said:

Thanks again. Given the reference, do you think he was actually a member of the regimental band? The letter seems to suggest as much, but I have no other photos to help. He was much appreciated in his musical contributions at Starcross (I have a separate reference letter for that).

In WW1 itself he enlisted in the Royal Marine Engineers in June 1918 - aged 45, and was based at Shoreham in Sussex. 

There was real consequence in stating a falsehood back then, especially with something like a reference, so I can see no reason why Bandmaster Lowther would say something untrue.  It seems that Scoble was a talented musician given the number of other bands he joined and being in an Army brass and woodwind band was quite prestigious back then.

Only the more wealthy people could afford music machines so most families made their own music in their parlours and there was commonly someone in the family who could play an instrument or piano.  It was a time when there were bandstands in most public parks of any decent size and it was a common Saturday outing to go and listen to the military bands playing the latest tunes.  A sort of jukebox for the masses in some respects.

Unlike their regular counterparts the Militia bands were based in the regimental headquarters and depots, so local people would have seen and heard them play quite often. They were a good recruiting focus, as well as encouraging the population to perceive the men from the barracks as their own regiment.

As I understand it the bandmaster and band were freelance civilian musicians who signed a contract for a period of time as Militia bandsmen and were paid a moderate salary**.  In addition they received an individual share on a pro-rata basis of cash proceeds from organised and scheduled performances such as those in the bandstands each month.  Unlike regular and rifle volunteer bandsmen they had no obligation to act in any other military capacity such as stretcher bearers, they were simply musicians.  They could resign at any time within the constraints of the contract of employment that they’d signed.

**subsidised by a monthly band subscription, paid by officers of the militia, who were commonly quite wealthy landowners.  This also paid for the upkeep of instruments.

Edited 22 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE