Aluminium Name Tag - NZEF

[smclaren]

Hi All

I had reason today to share on a FB site a photo of the aluminium name tag that my Grandfather (Lt George McLaren - 12/2419 - 1st Auckland Infantry Battalion, NZEF) left us, along with the rest of his war diaries, photos, letters etc. See that photo following.

I never really stopped to think exactly what this would have been issued/used for, so thought that I would finally ask the question here on GWF. I've never seen another one anywhere ... and don't know if it was a NZEF issue only .... or other British army's had them.

It's quite corroded, very fragile and unfortunately broken.

Any info appreciated.

Regards

Steve

[Michelle Young]

The only examples I’ve seen of these are attached to wooden grave markers. 

[mancpal]

I tend to agree, did George McLaren survive?  Clutching at straws and I don’t recall seeing similar but could it be an officers luggage tag.  (I’m still in favour of grave marker).

Simon

[TullochArd]

5 minutes ago, mancpal said:

....... did George McLaren survive? 

Sure did.  12/2419 G. Mclaren died December 1962.  A mystery for sure.

[battle of loos]

good evening,

here is some similar artefact find near a britisch cimetery near Arras :

regards

michel

[battle of loos]

picture take on the net :

exemple in the cross :

Edited 17 April , 2023 by battle of loos

[smclaren]

Thanks for the all the responses.

The question was ... did George McLaren survive ? Yes he did ... and I am his youngest grandchild. George died in 1962.

However .... George was reported KIA just one day after landing on Gallipoli during the height of the Battle of Chunk Bair.

 

The shell that killed his two best mates standing next to him was reported to have knocked George off as well. However, he was only wounded (on the knee and ankle) and was sent back from the front lines after this incident to recover. That wound would get infected and he was sent off the peninsular back to Egypt to recover at the end of August ... landing back on ANZAC on the 10th of November 1915.

From a letter home to his mother ...

"Dardanelles 29/8/15
Dear Mother
Just a few lines from the trenches to let you know that I am well and having a strenuous time. I have lost over a dozen of my mates killed and wounded. In fact, I have lost four of the finest mates one would wish to be with. You remember me telling you about the mate that stopped with me in the hut at Tuakau, Mother, well he was killed the second day we reached here. I was wounded with the same shell. I got it slightly on the kneecap and ankle, but was alright again after three days rest and back at it again."

An updated report in the NZ press gave the full account ... 

 

 Could this event generated the aluminium tag ? Another WW1 mystery .... 

 

Edited 17 April , 2023 by smclaren

[Fromelles]

Maybe he had one made up for himself as a bit of a lark

Dan

[TullochArd]

11 hours ago, smclaren said:

However .... George was reported KIA just one day after landing on Gallipoli during the height of the Battle of Chunk Bair ........ Could this event generated the aluminium tag. 

Seems a most plausible explanation for the creation of an actual grave marker tag. 

It is equally plausible that his return to duty may have resulted in him being handed the happily redundant item as a souvenir.  

[Fromelles]

I don't think these type of markers were used during the Gallipoli campaign, but I've seen them used there after the war. So the mistaken casualty would have been sorted out long before these type of markers would have been produced.

Edited 18 April , 2023 by Fromelles

[TullochArd]

2 hours ago, Fromelles said:

I don't think these type of markers were used during the Gallipoli campaign, but I've seen them used there after the war. So the mistaken casualty would have been sorted out long before these type of markers would have been produced.

I stand corrected.  You are quite right Fromelles.  The aluminium tapes appear in Gallipoli after the War.  The mystery continues.

Edited 18 April , 2023 by TullochArd

[smclaren]

I do appreciate the suggestion of a grave marker ... but its seems just too small (approx 10cm long) to be practical. 

What has me thinking is that as I have never seen another one related to the NZEF, these tags must have been judiciously handed out (George only ever spent his own money on partying in the UK, doubtful he paid for it himself) ... so I am thinking that it must have been associated with his Commission in mid/late 1918 .... as opposed to his time as a plain old Digger ?

@mancpal did suggest earlier that it could be an Officers luggage tag  ... which makes sense in terms of scarcity, size etc ? The small holes in it could be used for tacks to bang it onto your suitcase/trunk ?

But again .... I've never ever seen one before ? Not even an English/British one ? 

edit: I have emailed the NZ Army Museum to see if they have ever seen one.

Edited 19 April , 2023 by smclaren

[TullochArd]

3 hours ago, smclaren said:

I do appreciate the suggestion of a grave marker ... but its seems just too small (approx 10cm long) to be practical. 

Here's an ANZAC temporary grave marker at Gallipoli dating from the early 1920's when the cemeteries were being tidied up. I must say I see the size and style matching.

I would have thought it improbable that it relates in any way to his later commissioned service as it still bears his OR number 12/2419?

[smclaren]

31 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

Here's an ANZAC temporary grave marker at Gallipoli dating from the early 1920's when the cemeteries were being tidied up. I must say I see the size and style matching.

I would have thought it improbable that it relates in any way to his later commissioned service as it still bears his OR number 12/2419?

Hmmmm ... I see what you mean. They are quite a small marker, aren't they !

Just on his service number ... Im curious to why would you think that his number doesn't relate to his Commissioning ? I do note that he didn't get another number when commissioned ... and continued to note his commission rank alongside his service number, as he did whilst an NCO.

[Andrew Upton]

As I recall from this previous thread it was common to find the metal stamping machines for these name strips in railways stations at the start of the war, where they were eventually commandeered by the Graves Units and used to produce the crosses. Although we now more commonly associate the style with the crosses and the dead it's not impossible that George McLaren did buy one to use as a luggage tag or similar before this:

 

[smclaren]

That's a great thread, Andrew. 

It seems quite plausible that George could have spent a few pennies printing out his name whilst waiting for a train, somewhere in the UK (either on leave from the Western Front or whilst at OTC Keble College, Oxford.  

I'd suggest this mystery is very close to being solved ?

Steve

[Fromelles]

14 hours ago, smclaren said:

Just on his service number ... Im curious to why would you think that his number doesn't relate to his Commissioning ? I do note that he didn't get another number when commissioned ... and continued to note his commission rank alongside his service number, as he did whilst an NCO.

I think TullochArd is referring to commissioned officers not being issued a Regi number, and those commissioned from the ranks losing their numbers.

It's assumed the Kiwis also followed this practice (the AIF certainly did).

Dan

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, Fromelles said:

I think TullochArd is referring to commissioned officers not being issued a Regi number, and those commissioned from the ranks losing their numbers.

Sure am. 

On commissioning his enlisted service as 12/2419 was ended with an administrative discharge and commissioned service as an officer began usually the next day, for administrative continuity.  At this time no numbers were allocated to officers and 12/2419 had no future relevance in his administration (service record, pay etc.) from this point so the officer's luggage tag theory seems impractical.

We'll never know but, with the amount of coverage of his reported death as 12/2419, and 12/2419 being on the tape which is identical to temporary grave marker tape, I reckon it's origin somehow relates to that event. 

As Fromelles suggested earlier it may well have been knocked up later in the War as a memento of this very significant personal event.  Not too dissimilar to many curious and unexplained bits and bobs that occasionally turn up in old tobacco tins along with grubby medals and buckled badges.  

Great story.  Thanks for sharing.

[Chasemuseum]

In the AIF it was the custom for a man to have a night having a few drinks with his mates before being commissioned. It was a symbolic end to their friendship. Once commissioned they were meant to not associate with their old comrades. Possibly it was made up as a "grave marker" to commemorate his death from his mates on taking up his commission.