Service record help please

[adam1981]

Hello,

I would appreciate some help please with the name of the ship/action which the bounty is paid for as shown below, 2nd item (17 July 1918). 

 

[horatio2]

Hard to read but the entry may refer to the sinking of the German cruiser SMS BLŰCHER at the Battle of the Dogger Bank, 24 January 1915..

[adam1981]

Ah, that makes sense, as the man served on HMS Princess Royal at the time of Dogger Bank. It doesn't quite look right (it has an extra L!) but seems the best explanation.

[adam1981]

sorry, i've just realised the date for the note matches Dogger Bank. Thanks again

[RNCVR]

Agree with @horatio2 SMS Blucher.

[RNCVR]

The first entry for Jutland, 2 June 1916  ---  2nd line --- is it - lacerated wounds of both ankles??

[adam1981]

It may well say lacerated, but I am not sure. Interesting to think how someone could wound both ankles

[RNCVR]

Possibly shrapnel, shell fragment wounds, depends on what ship he was on, how badly she was engaged/hit, & his duty station during the battle (Jutland). 

[KizmeRD]

I couldn’t find any battle casualties listed for PRINCESS ROYAL that day, however ankle damage is not too uncommon on a warship. It could easily come from sliding down a stairway ladder akwardly, or from stepping inside the bite of a rope (or wire) on deck that suddenly pulls taught. Similar injury can also come from underwater mine explosion (though obviously not in this case).

MB

[horatio2]

Not the Battle of the Dogger Bank. The "lacerated wounds" were received in the Battle of Jutland on 31 May 1916. Since we have not seen the full record, it is not known if he was still serving in PRINCESS ROYAL but she had more than twenty casualties from nine German 'hits'.

Edited 10 April , 2023 by horatio2

[KizmeRD]

Sorry, I see now my mistake.

MB

[KizmeRD]

16 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

it is not known if he was still serving in PRINCESS ROYAL but she had more than twenty casualties from nine German 'hits'.

The wound entry is signed off ‘Walter Cowan’, so safe to say that the mystery man was still serving aboard PRINCESS ROYAL at Jutland.

(Capt Walter Cowan was flag captain to Osmond Brock, 1st Battlecruiser Squadron).

MB

[adam1981]

Thanks very much for the fascinating information. The man in question is 9601 Murrell RMLI. He served from 1899 to 1920 and certainly 'had a war' in WW1. I am piecing together the WW1 service but am now stuck on the names of the two postings from 21 January 1917 to 09 January 1919. Any help appreciated please

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 April , 2023 by adam1981

[KizmeRD]

Looks like HMS Doris (to my eyes) - an old protected cruiser, stationed out in India.

MB

[aim]

Yes - HMS Doris, followed by HMS Fox.

aim

[horatio2]

Followed by a couple of weeks over the turn of the year in the old cruiser HMS FOX, probably taking passage down to Ceylon (for Colombo).

Edited 10 April , 2023 by horatio2

[RNCVR]

6 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

..... however ankle damage is not too uncommon .... or from stepping inside the bite of a rope (or wire) on deck that suddenly pulls taught

In which case he would likely have lost both ankles completely.

 

[KizmeRD]

1 hour ago, RNCVR said:

In which case he would likely have lost both ankles completely.

 

Much depends on individual circumstances - fortunately, in the case that I witnessed, amputation was avoided (I was serving on a minesweeper at the time).

Anyway, I was only speculating on some possible non-battle related causes of injury because at the time I was under the misapprehension that the ankle injury arose from Dogger Bank (where there are no recorded casualties to PRINCESS ROYAL crew members) - whereas, as we all now fully appreciate, the injury actually happened during the Battle of Jutland (where PRINCESS ROYAL did indeed take incoming fire). 

MB

[Stuart T]

I'm rather intrigued that he was demobbed in 1920 with no further note of any service, yet the annotation 'discharged dead 11/12/43?' aged 62. No evident CWGC or GRO record.

[horatio2]

You will notice that, while demobbed in December 1920, he had completed  his 21 years pensionable service a few months earlier and, after that date was retained in service as a pensioner reservist in Class 'A' of the Royal Fleet Reserve (RFR).

Class 'A' men did not enroll for any specified period. Pensioners did not incur any fresh liability by enrolling in Class A. of the Reserve. As Pensioners they were already liable to be called upon by the Admiralty to serve in the Fleet in an emergency.

He was possibly recalled as a pensioner for WW2 but details are not recorded on his ADM 159 ledger page. At his age he would have been certainly employed in shore establishments, releasing youmger men to the Fleet. Alternatively, he was not recalled but, as a Class 'A' reservist, his death was recorded as a Discharge Dead from the RFR (not on active service).

His absence from the CWGC/WW2 inclines me to the latter, not recalled, option.

Edited 12 April , 2023 by horatio2

[Stuart T]

Thanks, couldn't see the bit about RFR. I have to zoom in so much to read anything, it must have got lost between scrolling.

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, Stuart T said:

Thanks, couldn't see the bit about RFR.

There is no specific mention of RFR service but it can be deduced from the fact that on 19 February 1920 he was (notionally) discharged to pension ["D. Completed 21 years service"] and yet he continued on active service for another ten months (as a 'mobilised' pensioner (Class 'A' reservist)) until his demobilisation in the following December.

PS his final VG/Superior assessment on demob has a note "See RFR [record]", which confirms the above deduction.

Edited 12 April , 2023 by horatio2

[Stuart T]

Ok, thanks.

[aim]

On 12/04/2023 at 11:23, Stuart T said:

I'm rather intrigued that he was demobbed in 1920 with no further note of any service, yet the annotation 'discharged dead 11/12/43?' aged 62. No evident CWGC or GRO record.

Surely he was recorded "Discharged Dead" so they could stop paying his pension?

aim

[wallace2]

Injuries to both ankles during Jutland might well happen if man was serving a gun fitted with a gun shield.  Shell splinters hitting the ship could pass under the gun shield and injure the gun's crew.