Armoured trains present at the western front ?

[Paul7781]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am working on a research project about the armoured trains present at the end of October 1914 in the region of Ypres and Houthem (near Comines). To my knowledge, there were 2 Belgian-British trains and later in November a German train.
Could you help me in my research?
I am interested in any documents to study and if I could use any images, I would be very happy.
Thank you in advance for your help in ensuring that future generations never forget!
With best regards,
Paul

[alf mcm]

Paul,

  Welcome to the forum. 

  The National Archives have a war diary for 1 Armoured Train. Not sure where it served but it was part of 1st Army, The diary can be downloaded free once you register.

Army Troops. 1 Armoured Train Royal Garrison Artillery | The National Archives

Regards,

Alf McM

EDIT - Just noticed this diary is for 1915-17, so is probably not of use to you.

Edited 4 April , 2023 by alf mcm
Date is too late

[AOK4]

Hello,

I know that there were one or two German armoured trains present in Flanders for quite some time. Information about them is very hard to find though.

Jan

[michaeldr]

Have a look at 'Naval Guns in Flanders 1914-1915' by L.F.R. (a facsimile was published by the Naval & Military Press in 2004)

Chapter 3 deals with the First Battle of Ypres.

The book concerns the activities of armoured trains mounted with Naval guns and manned by RN sailors

[ianjonesncl]

This Blog entry may be of interest.

 

[bierast]

19 hours ago, AOK4 said:

I know that there were one or two German armoured trains present in Flanders for quite some time. Information about them is very hard to find though.

I found one interesting hint in the Verlustlisten (this is the one and only reference in the Verlustlisten to 'Panzerzug Nr.3', with or without the association with VIII.AK - presumably the corps district where this unit was raised?).

Detachement Wahnschaffe was a designation used in autumn 1914 for the formation usually known as 41. Landwehr-Infanterie-Brigade or 41. gemischte Landwehr-Brigade. According to the regimental history of IR 107, this formation was present on the left flank of Saxon XIX. Armeekorps (west of Lille) on 23rd October 1914. It was withdrawn on 9th December.

I would surmise that the armoured train was behind the front in the vicinity of Lille, and provided fire support to General Wahnschaffe's mixed brigade (which appears to have been very weak in artillery).

For the benefit of anyone attempting to research Detachement Wahnschaffe further, here's the rough OOB I worked out for it at this time:

LIR 87 (only II. & III. Batl.?)
IV. Batl. / LIR 75
IV. (& V.?) Batl. / LIR 76
I. (mob.) Ers. Abt. / FAR 63
4. Ldw. Esk. XIII. AK (and probably another unidentified squadron)
 

Edited 5 April , 2023 by bierast

[bierast]

I just noticed the date in the above casualty notice... 4th October 1914! This is prior to the storming of Lille or even the arrival of XIX.AK on this front. I do not know what Detachement Wahnschaffe was doing at that point, but they were certainly in the vicinity of Lille (4th October at Lille is also mentioned in the Verlustlisten for e.g. LIR 87).

[Paul7781]

Thank you, with your help I can continue my research. It is true that I have already made good progress regarding the Belgian-English train :) However, the "Panzerzug" is more difficult to grasp. Anyway, a huge thank you, I have new leads and therefore new hopes thanks to your indications.

[bierast]

3 hours ago, Paul7781 said:

Thank you, with your help I can continue my research. It is true that I have already made good progress regarding the Belgian-English train However, the "Panzerzug" is more difficult to grasp. Anyway, a huge thank you, I have new leads and therefore new hopes thanks to your indications.

No problem - I'll be most interested to hear about it if you succeed in tracking down "Panzerzug Nr.3 des VIII.AK" or any other German armoured trains.

I just remembered that the regimental history of RIR 440 also covers (among others) the supernumerary IV. Batl. / LIR 75 (because that battalion eventually became part of RIR 440). I just checked this source and found no mention whatsoever of Detachement Wahnschaffe or of any employment on this front... the battalion didn't even leave Germany until 23rd October 1914 and was then sent much further south. Presumably the mention of IV. /  LIR 75 in the OOB I have is an error for some other unit.

LIR 87 is definitely correct (see below!), but regrettably that regiment has no published history.
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/966285