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14th (King's) Hussars & 20th Hussars


Patrick ODwyer

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Patrick ODwyer

I would be able to help with these two regiments - enquiries welcome - information also sought

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  • 3 weeks later...
Northern Soul

Patrick,

I'd appreciate any information about the 20th Hussars for the few days leading up to 1st November 1914 when a man I am researching, L/C Hartley Richardson was killed.

Andy.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Patrick ODwyer

Sorry Andy, I've just seen your message. Corporal Richardson was probably (pretty certain in fact) killed in the recapture of Wytschaete when part of the regiment was attached to the 12th Lancers for that purpose. The diary doesn't make it absolutely clear about him as an individual but this was the action they were engaged in.

If you have anything on him please bear me in mind. He came from the RFA and served in France from 15 Aug 1914 (probably an error and should be 16 Aug).

Hope this helps

Patrick

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  • 4 years later...

Hi Patrick,

Would you happen to have anything on Lieut. Frank Moxon Stout, MC, 20th Hussars & 5th MG Squadron? Have all his promotions, transfers, MC, MID etc from the London Gazette and War Diary, but nil from the Regimental History. Any mentions at all very much appreciated.

George

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Patrick,

Please find details of the only man listed on the Widnes, Cheshire, (Formerly Lancashire) War Memorial who served in the 14th King`s Hussars.

Pte William Mather

No.3901

14th King`s Hussars

Born : Not known.

Enlisted : Mobilised in August, 1914.

Resided : 6 St Michael`s Road, Ditton, Widnes.

Died of wounds in Widnes on 22nd March, 1919. aged 28.

Buried at Widnes Cemetery, Plot 11R, Grave 2657.

Commemorated at St Patrick`s church in West Bank, Widnes.

A member of B Squadron, he was injured on 20th May, 1916 when he fell from his horse in a charge against the Turks, at that time the 14th Hussars took part in the operations connected with the relief of Kut. The 14th Hussars sailed from Karachi on the transport ship “Islanda” on 8th November, 1915 and eventually landed at Basra in Mesopotamia on the 15th.

William Mather suffered a severe scalp wound in the fall and after being treated locally was evacuated to hospital in Bombay on 21st July, 1916. The fifth son of Henry & Sarah Mather, he was in the Territorials for approximately six years before he was mobilised in August, 1914. He served in Mesopotamia and was wounded in May, 1916. Treated in hospital in Bombay, Alexandria and later at the Stobhill hospital in Glasgow, he was sent to the Tower Auxiliary hospital,# at Rainhill, near Liverpool. On 20th August, 1917, whilst still at the Tower Hill hospital he was discharged from the forces.##

Apparently refusing to be operated on, he died as a result of his wound and a CWGC headstone was erected on his grave.

# Tower Hill Auxilary Hospital was the Tower Hill College in Rainhill.

## WWN 1919.

Please feel free to include him in your research project.

Regards Jones 75 Harry.

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Harry

We have been in touch before. The details of Mather's service in Mesopotamia and his injuries and medical treatment that the museum supplied came from my research and we corresponded after that. I have your book! Thanks for the extra bits.

George

I'll get back to you. What's your connection? Family or research? What do you want to know?

More soon

Patrick

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Patrick,

Connection: research, have had his MC forever. Still looking for his trio...

Have lots of information including his appearance in "Deeds that Thrilled the Empire" but hadn't gone after the regimental details afore now. On this side of the pond, the Reg History is a bit scarce and not available.

Look forward to hearing from you.

George

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The history of the 20th Hussars by Darling has been republished for about $30 US by the Naval and Military Press. It makes Little mention of F M Stout other than he took over command of the MG Section in July 1915. As you probably know this then became part of the Brigade's MG Squadron. If you have read the war diary you probably have as much I have on his actions with the 20th Hussars but I can send you some personal details if you don't have those. I think I may have used "Deeds that Thrilled the Empire" but am not certain now. I seem to recall a drawing of the action that won his MC. I would be grateful for a copy if you can just in case. You know his brother PW Stout was also in the 20th Hussars and they both played rugby for England?

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Patrick,

Hadn't seen the reprint of Darling's history, but it'll now have to find it's way here. Scanner's on the fritz so putting up the page from "Deeds..." will be rather difficult. I did see that it was on the internet, but don't recall where - seems I found it shewn by just searching for his name and 20th Hussars; oh, it was for sale, too, a bit pricey, if I recall. Unfortunately, it's a rather dark affair and even when it's been lightened, it's still rather a blur. If you need it, I could have it copied and send it off to you - let me know.

I know about brother Percy, his group has been the principal resident in my collection for many years. A week hasn't gone by that I don't try something new to add a bit of detail to what is known about him, and the rest of his family. It was my impression that Percy didn't spend much time with the regiment, if any, as he went off to the RNAS/RNVR for the armoured cars in France for which he was MID by Haig in 1916 by which time he'd transferred back to the Army and been sent to Egypt for duty as detailed by Gen. Maxwell whom he knew personally from pre-war association. Their sister, E. Almaz, was a journalist and writer of some note becoming President of the Society of Women Journalists. She did a stint with the French Red Cross during the war and earned a pair - BWM/VM. Another brother, Harry Wingfield, the eldest of the siblings, was a prominent London sculler, not as great as the father was, but very competitive who later in life was a noted yachtsman. Just details, I know, but it all adds up to a more detailed picture of the world, culture and family in which they lived.

If you come across anything about either brother, I'd be much obliged and very appreciative to receive it.

Many Thanks,

George

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Yes Percy Stout came and went. He was a stockbroker in Cairo before the war and was Mentioned in Despatches (London Gazette 12 January 1918; London Gazette 22 January 1919) and was awarded the Order of the Nile, 4th Class (and maybe twice more mentioned but not tracked as yet - too many others!) You know about his dad and siblings. How did he know Gen Maxwell?

Temporary 2nd Lieutenant F M Stout was awarded the Military Cross (London Gazette 15 March 1916 p. 2883). The man with him that day was Cpl G Tester. Frank Stout M.C. joined the 20th Hussars Special Reserve on 14 August 1918. He occasionally acted as Adjutant to the Unit. Frank Stout was Mentioned in Haig’s Despatch of 16 March 1919 (London Gazette 4 July 1919) while still with the 5th Squadron, Machine Gun Corps (Cav.). His British War and Victory Medals are on the MGC Roll (Off/227/30) as noted on the 20th Hussars’ Roll. Frank Moxon Stout died after a long illness on 30 May 1926.

I'll pm you about DTTTE - curious what it may add.

I am not sure what I can add to what you know as you have done a thorough job but if you have specific unanswered questions that may help.

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  • 1 year later...

Pat,

I am researching my great uncle who was in the 15th Hussars prior to WW1 and then the he joined the 14th at the ripe age of 47 for WW1! He was transferred to the RASC soon after. Below are his details, I have his war docs with more detail. He was a strapper.

I know nothing of the Hussars and would be keen to gain ANY info on what he would have done for his period whilst in service (either WW1 or whilst he was in the 15th for 7 years prior). Even a book on the units detailed history..... War diary for the days before and after he went to France would be really nice as well... :-)

John Robert Harrison

DOB 17 Dec 1867

Regt Number: 29367, 126245, 111340 (MIC number)

Joined 1915 Feb 23 into Hussars – 14th Reserve Cavalry. Transferred to ASC (Army Service Corps) 1915 May 5. In France 1916 Aug 26 via the SS Viper – 1919 Feb 06. Private for duration.

31 SQD RASC on discharge.

Was in 15th Hussars for 7 years.

Thanks heaps in advance. Peter

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  • 4 weeks later...
Patrick ODwyer

Dear Peter

I can't help much with the 15th Hussars but the 14th Reserve Cavalry was not the 14th Hussars. The later was a regular unit that served in Mesopotamia during the war. The 14th Reserve Cavalry was a reserve unit in the UK feeding drafts to other regular units, including the 15th Hussars, but not the 14th Hussars.

I will look at his MIC and my records but it seems unlikely he was with the 14th Hussars

Kind regards

Patrick

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello Patrick,

I have a question relating to the 20th Hussars and the events of the 23rd March 1918.

The 16th Lancers were at Grandru on the 23rd, according to the war diary,

"Lt Sparrow and 33 other ranks with 6 Hotchkiss guns left mounted to join Lt Col Cooke, 20th Hussars. Remainder of the Regiment and all led horses left Grandru at 3.30pm and marched bia Baboeuf and Couarcy to bivouvac in Bois de Carlepont."

It just so happens that the Pozieres memorial contains the names of 33 other ranks and 2 Officers. .Interestingly he is shown as having been killed in the Regt History on the 22 March. Which also states that he was killed in the Outpost Line along with 2 /Lt Sir J. Watson. This was a pretty fluid battle, bodies were certainly left so thats the two officers accounted for. However no mention is made of that party of 33 returning from the 20th Hussars.

Any info on the day from the 20th Hussars would be of great interest.

I have the complete 3rd Bde War Diaires 1914-19 digi copied and Im going to be starting on the 2nd Div HQ and troops on my next visit to the NA.

Will be more than happy to share anything I find.

Cheers

John

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Patrick ODwyer

John

I will have a look but very quickly 'Cook's Detachment' had a Squadron of 16th Lancers attached to it briefly and occupied part of Lagny on 26 March. There were casualties in the withdrawal including Colonel Cook but nothing to indicate 33 men of the Lancers, which I suspect is losses stretched over a longer period of time.

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Cheers for that,

It looks like pure coincidence that the date and the number of OR's is the same (what are the chances?)

I have never come across "Cooks Command" can you give me a little more info when you have a sec?

The 26th looks the most likely for those casualties, so much confusion prevailed during that week it must have diffecult to keep an accuarte record.

Thanks

John

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