The Royal Berkshire Regiment, 43292 H. Greenway

[Brian J Owen]

I am looking for assistance to finding a relation who served in The Royal Berkshire Regiment, 43292 H. Greenway on his medal cad it also says Hampshire Regiment 010517, would anyone know to which Battalions he would have served?

[PRC]

Probably worth asking the Admins to split this your request off into it's own thread. Edit - now done.

 

Medal Index Card shows that Harry Greenway qualified for the Victory Medal and British War Medal, so didn't land in a Theatre of War until on or after the 1st January 1916.

From a look at the roll number on the card it looks like the issuing unit, the last one served with, was the Hampshire Regiment.

 

Other than the 2/4th Battalion, the only other four Battalions of the Royal Berkshire that went overseas after 1915 were Labour Battalions that were subsequently converted into Labour Corps Companys in April 1917.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/princess-charlotte-of-waless-royal-berkshire-regiment/

The most likely scenario is that he went overseas as part of a replacement draft.

 

While he may have done his initial training with a home service only Battalion of the Royal Berkshire Regiment, increasingly from spring 1916 onwards as men arrived intended as a draft for one particular unit they would instead be redirected to wherever the need was greatest. Therefore there isn't even a guarantee he ever actually reached his unit of the Royal Berkshires in the field, despite what the paperworks says.

 

As there don't appear to be any surviving service records for him, your immediate best hope is that the clerk who completed the Service Medal Roll for Harry followed the standard instructions on the form and listed all units served with overseas. The document can only be viewed on Ancestry.

 

Hopefully it is also in service number order rather than surname order, as it will then be easier to see whether he was part of a draft from the Royal Berkshires to the Hampshires.

 

A quick look at the MiC record in the National Archive Catalogue shows the following for men with nearby service numbers in the Hampshire Regiment:-

 

010508 John C. Gould ex 37823 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010509 Owen Grainger ex 44606 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010510 No MiC match at the National Archive

010511 Joseph Golby ex 34056 Royal Warwickshire Regiment

010512 Richard George ex 41462 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010513 No MiC match at the National Archive

010514 Frederick D. Gunston ex 24052 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010515 Samuel J Godfrey ex 45607 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010516 No MiC match at the National Archive

 

010518 George Grenfell ex 58381 Royal Warwickshire Regiment

010519 Henry T. Gibbons ex 29052 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire L.I., and 45193 Royal Berkshire.

010520 Robert Grove ex 32854 Royal Berkshire

010521 No MiC match at the National Archive

010522 Albert Gates ex 48641 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010523 Gaions Greaves ex 44327 Royal Berkshire Regiment

010524 No MiC match at the National Archive

010525 No MiC match at the National Archive

010526 Francis H Harris ex 40467 Somerset Light Infantry and 48645 Royal Berkshire Regiment.

 

For me that is strongly suggestive of a draft for the Royal Berkshires that was redirected to the Hampshire Regiment while still at the Base Depot.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 6 February , 2021 by PRC

[Michelle Young]

Hello Brian, 

Split into a new thread as suggested by Peter.

Michelle

 

[sotonmate]

Original Medal Roll shows 8th Berkshire on embarkation but no Hampshire unit.

[kenf48]

The Hampshire number is post war dating from around November/December 1919.  The Hampshire Roll was prepared 21 May 1920.

 

As noted above 8th Royal Berkshire, his number indicates it was allocated on posting to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion May 1918, conscription (age?). Posted to 8th Battalion on an indeterminate date after that. I notice you are in Leamington Spa a nuoticeable number of men with close numbers were resident in Warwickshire and posted to the Royal Berks around this time.

 

[PRC]

Sorry Brian,

 

While the scenario I set out of a draft from the Royal Berkshires going out to a Theatre of War and being redirected shortly after arrival is a common one, it doesn't appear to be the one that applies here.

 

Looking a bit deeper at the list I set out above:-

 

20 hours ago, PRC said:

010520 Robert Grove ex 32854 Royal Berkshire

 

Shown serving with ‘D’ Company, 5th Battalion, Royal Berkshire Regiment when he was admitted to 34 CCS from 51 Field Ambulance on the 23rd June 1918 suffering with Influenza.He was moved on further along the medical evacuation chain aboard 17 Ambulance Train the next day.

 

Extending the search:

 

010527 Horace G. Heraper ex 50768 Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

Serving with A Company, 10th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment, when he was admitted to 18th General Hospital on the 18th November 1918 with severe influenza. He was discharged to 6 Convalescent Depot on the 26th November 1918.

 

010473 Arthur R. Castledine ex 42816 Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

Serving with 10th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment, when he was admitted to 34 CCS on the 20th October 1918 suffering from “H.E. face”. He was moved on via 42 Ambulance Train the next day.

 

010465 Reginald C. Castle ex 26244 Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

Serving with 10th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment when he was admitted to 34 CCS from 46 CCS on the 20th October 1918 suffering from a shrapnel wound of the right arm. He was moved on via 42 Ambulance Train the next day.

 

010464 John Cotterill ex 42898 Royal Berkshire Regiment.

Serving with 5th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment when he admitted to 2nd General Hospital on the 23rd September 1918 suffering from Tonsilitis. He was returned to duty on the 25th via 4 Convalescent Depot.

 

010451 Alexander F. Close ex 42968 Royal Berkshire Regiment

Serving with the Royal Berkshire Regiment when he was admitted to 3CCS on the 29th September 1918 with gun shot wounds.He was moved on via Ambulance Train 10 on the 1st October.

 

That’s the highlights of 010450 to 010550 and as you can see no surviving service records for any of them.

 

So as @kenf48 has identified, they don't appear to go to the Hampshire Regiment until post-armistice and this may explain why @sotonmate found no battalion listed for that Regiment on the Service Medal Roll. As only a 5% sample of the admissions and discharges books for medical facilities were retained it may be possible that more of the men who ended up with the Hampshire Regiment had been wounded \ fell ill in the final months of the war and were at a Convalescent Depot or Base Depot when they were transferred to the Hampshire Regiment.

 

So it would appear Harry Greenway saw service in France & Flanders with the 8th Battalion, Royal Berkshire Regiment. Unfortunately we don't know when he went out, other than it was in 1918.

 

Any idea when he was born and what sort of work he might have been doing prior to being called up?

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Brian J Owen]

Hi Peter, thank you and all the other contributors, Harry was born in Shottery, Stratford upon Avon in January 1883, then moved to Coventry.

 

Once again many thanks,

 

Brian

[butler]

Looking at the sequence of numbering in the Hampshire Regiment it is difficult to come up with a bracket of when your man transferred, as transferees and those enlisting direct into the Hampshire Regiment appear to be numbered in blocks by not strictly consecutively. It is possible that Pte Greenway did not transfer until early 1920.

 

All those who transferred in around that time and have a battalion shown on the medal roll are shown as 1/8 (Isle of Wight Rifles) battalion, which according to Wikipedia demobbed in Cairo, but also sent a cadre to the Sudan when rioting broke out, eventually retuning to the Isle of Wight in 1920.

 

Some who continued to serve are shown on the medal rolls as transferring to 17 battalion Royal Sussex Regt

[butler]

Further to my previous post the regimental history 'The Royal Hampshire Regiment 1914-1918' by C T Atkinson says of the 8th Battalion:

 

'.... transferred to Khartoum in March (1919)...only about 250 of the 8th being available for the Soudan....where the battalion remained throughout the year......several drafts, mostly from units being demobilised, brought the battalion's numbers up to about 750 by the end of August......In October substantial drafts joined from the 12th Hampshire and the Royal Berkshire which allowed the demobilisation of all who had enlisted before July 1st 1916....on December 14th a company of the 2nd King's arrived to relieve the 8th Hampshire. By the New Year handing over was virtually complete and the battalion was preparing to quit Khartoum, though some time yet was to elapse before its final reduction to a cadre which eventually reached the UK in March.

[PRC]

5 hours ago, Brian J Owen said:

Harry was born in Shottery, Stratford upon Avon in January 1883, then moved to Coventry.

 

So a 28 year old married Mineral Water Brewer on the 1911 Census of England & Wales - so no obvious reason there on grounds of age or employment as to why he wasn't called up earlier than 1918.

 

A quick look at nearby Royal Berkshire Berkshire Regiment service numbers brought up these two:-

 

43298 Oscar Daniel Pumwell. No surviving service records, but Silver War Badge Roll shows enlisted 7th May 1918. Aged 21 when discharged in 1919.

 

43304 Leonard Price Commander. Surviving Discharge Records. Enlisted 8th May 1918.  He is shown as posted for duty at Dublin, with the 3rd Battalion, Royal Berkshire Regiment, fitness rated Grade A. He had his medical at Birmingham on the 11th April 1918. His last employer was the Austin Motor Works in Birmingham, where he was an Electrician \ Wireman

 

Served with the 8th Battalion, Royal Berkshire Regiment.

I suspect dates for Harry Greenway are not dissimilar to those on the Casualty Form- Active Service for Leonard Commander, although even they vary by a day or two from the information elsewhere in his service record. (IBD = Infantry Base Depot)

 

(Image courtesy FindMyPast)

 

War Diaries can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You just need to set up and account, (if you haven't got one), and even that can be done as part of placing your first order - no financial details required.

 

The relevant diary for the 8th Battalion goes from February 1918 to April 1919, so possibly even has a roll call for the men transferred to the Hampshires.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352989

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Brian J Owen]

Thanks again to every one for all the advice and information, I will set an account up with the National Archive, and see what happens.

[Brian J Owen]

Good afternoon all, I am trying to find the war diary for the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Berkshire Regiment, the gentleman I am interested in was in the 3rd Battalion ( information from the absent voters list 1918). He qualified for the victory and war medals. any assistance would be most welcome, I started another reference on this man in soldiers and there units, so not sure if I am in the correct area?

Kind regards,

Brian

 

[EDWARD1]

The 3rd (Reserve) served in Portsmouth and Dublin for the duration . With medals he will have been transferred to another battalion that did serve in a war zone. Any Name etc?

 

[jonbem]

As a reserve battalion they probably didn't have a war diary

Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Royal Berkshire Regiment) - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

3rd (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : in Reading. A depot/training unit, it moved on mobilisation to Purbrook Camp at Portsmouth. Moved to Ireland in 1917 and known to be at Dublin by the end of 1918.

[Brian J Owen]

Thank you gentleman for your replies, the man in question is Pte. 43292 Harry Greenway, I originally enquired about him in soldiers and there units, it was only yesterday that the information surfaced, reference 3rd Battalion. I will check the diaries of the other Battalions for any transfer to the 3rd Battalion, if you have any ideas would appreciate any leads, thanks again, 

Regards, 

Brian 

[Jrmh]

Medal and Award Roll shows him to Hamps R Regt No 010517 from 8th Royal Berks.

Edited 25 March , 2023 by Jrmh

[Brian J Owen]

Hi Jrmh, I noticed that, I was not sure if he was a Berkshire first or a Hampshire ?

Or this was his way of discharge back home, thanks for reply 

Regards 

Brian 

[Brian J Owen]

Good afternoon Gentlemen, I am trying to find the Medal Roll for the 8th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment reference  43292 Pte Harry Greenway, I believe I can view it on Ancestry,

but I can not find a catalogue number, any help would be most apricated,

Regards,

Brian 

[jonbem]

It's under Hampshire Rgt

UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 - Ancestry.co.uk

[Brian J Owen]

Hi Jonbem, Thank you for sending the page, as I have not seen this before, but are there any dates shown, such as when he joined the 8th Battalion?

thanks again for sending this information,

Kind Regards,

Brian

[kenf48]

Threads merged @Brian J Owen 

It can be confusing and lead to duplication of effort if we maintain two threads on the same soldier.

As noted previously Home Army Units were not required to maintain a war diary.  Typically men were posted to the Reserve or Depot Battalions whilst awairting a posting to an active service unit, or if they were in hospital following wounding or sickness. In other words it was often simply an administrative posting.

I would concur with Peter's@PRC analysis that he was posted to the 3rd Battalion in Dublin (a home posting in 1918) on the 8th May 1918.  The example Peter posted was a much younger soldier,  I would suggest your man attested under the (extended)  Derby Scheme and managed to secure exemption from military service at the Local Tribunal  until mobilised and posted to the Royal Berkshire Regiment on the 6th May, joining the 3rd Battalion for training on the 8th.

As noted above these men were posted to the 8th Battalion from the Infantry Base Depot in France most likely on the 19th September.  The war diary for September shows "316 other ranks joined the Battalion in the period under review", i.e. September 1918.  Reinforcements were usually posted when Battalions were out of the line. In the same month the Battalion recorded around 300 casualties.

As you apparently have access to Ancestry their Diary is here

if you have not downloaded it as advised above.  It is incorrectly indexed by Ancestry as the 6th Battalion.

The diary runs until April 1919 when the Battalion was reduced to a cadre.  There is an entry for the end of March which raised a smile, "Volunteers for Army of Occupation Nil - For retention with Army of Occupation 42".  So my guess is he saw his active service out with the Royal Berkshire Regiment 8th Battalion and was posted to the Hampshire Regiment  as previously noted post- Armistice.

[Brian J Owen]

Hi kenf48, thanks for your reply, I had downloaded the diary for the 8th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment, and as you know better than I, they were taking reinforcements constantly and I just couldn't put a time line on as when he could have joined the battalion, so thank you for your time and patience, 

Kind regards, 

Brian