Shirt Button Experts Required Please!

[Daveyboy]

Hi, I was hoping somebody could help me identify a small button.

For the past thirty-odd years, I've owned a WW1 British Officers' jacket of the Northumberland Fusiliers (2nd Lieut, cuff rank) - I posted a request for information about it back in 2013.  It was only recently, however, that I found this tiny button tucked away in the corner of one of the breast pockets.  It's only a centimetre or so in diameter and, as can be seen, made of bronze(?) overlaid with fabric.

I'm assuming it was a spare button for a shirt, but haven't been able to find any similar examples on the internet to confirm or deny this.  I was wondering if it looks familiar to anybody and, if so, if you could tell me if I'm correct in my assessment?

Thanks very much.

[FROGSMILE]

All I can say is the fact that it’s fabric covered (linen by the look of it) traditionally suggests it was a button that could touch on the skin.  So underwear would be my suggestion.

[Daveyboy]

Underwear is something I hadn't thought about.  Thanks Frogsmile, I'll go and follow that line of research.

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Daveyboy said:

Underwear is something I hadn't thought about.  Thanks Frogsmile, I'll go and follow that line of research.

Things like fine quality long sleeved undershirts and long johns (finest Botany [merino] wool) were popular.  Expensive, but within reach of the average traditional officer. Fly buttons and neck openings.

Edited 23 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Daveyboy]

13 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Things like fine quality long sleeved undershirts and long johns (finest Botany [merino] wool) were popular.  Expensive, but within reach of the average traditional officer. Fly buttons and neck openings.

Thanks very much for the detail.  Definitely a useful item to have a handy spare of then.  It's nice to think that it remained handy for over 100 years.  I've just been Googling linen buttons and have found a couple of matches from the period, confirming that it was a generic item and not military-specific.

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, Daveyboy said:

Thanks very much for the detail.  Definitely a useful item to have a handy spare of then.  It's nice to think that it remained handy for over 100 years.  I've just been Googling linen buttons and have found a couple of matches from the period, confirming that it was a generic item and not military-specific.

Rather than a spare I suspect it came off and was stuffed in the pocket with a repair in mind, but that’s just my conjecture of course.

Edited 23 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Daveyboy]

7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Rather than a spare I suspect it came off and was stuffed in the pocket with a repair in mind, but that’s just my conjecture of course.

I guess we'll never know. There are no thread remnants still attached to it, but they could have easily been removed.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Daveyboy said:

I guess we'll never know. There are no thread remnants still attached to it, but they could have easily been removed.

Yes I agree, but leaving a single small button loose in a relatively capacious pocket would lend towards that hypothesis.  Had it been there simply as a spare then I’d have expected it to be in a small repair kit.  Soldiers were issued these kits known as a Housewife, or Hussif, but officers generally purchased their own. 

[Daveyboy]

11 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I agree, but leaving a single small button loose in a relatively capacious pocket would lend towards that hypothesis.  Had it been there simply as a spare then I’d have expected it to be in a small repair kit.  Soldiers were issued these kits known as a Housewife, or Hussif, but officers generally purchased their own. 

I didn't realise that.  Thanks for the detail.  Although only a little thing, it's a direct connection to the young man who wore the jacket - whoever that may have been?  I've included a photo of the jacket, so you can see it's companion for the past 100 years.

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, Daveyboy said:

I didn't realise that.  Thanks for the detail.  Although only a little thing, it's a direct connection to the young man who wore the jacket - whoever that may have been?  I've included a photo of the jacket, so you can see it's companion for the past 100 years.

A fine jacket.  I have a vision of the young officer fumbling with urgency at the button that was regularly unfastened and it coming off between finger and thumb, leaving the thread remnants on the garment and him placing the button in his jacket pocket, perhaps thinking his batman would replace it later.  All speculation, but entirely possible.

Edited 24 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

23 hours ago, Daveyboy said:

Hi, I was hoping somebody could help me identify a small button.

For the past thirty-odd years, I've owned a WW1 British Officers' jacket of the Northumberland Fusiliers (2nd Lieut, cuff rank) - I posted a request for information about it back in 2013.  It was only recently, however, that I found this tiny button tucked away in the corner of one of the breast pockets.  It's only a centimetre or so in diameter and, as can be seen, made of bronze(?) overlaid with fabric.

I'm assuming it was a spare button for a shirt, but haven't been able to find any similar examples on the internet to confirm or deny this.  I was wondering if it looks familiar to anybody and, if so, if you could tell me if I'm correct in my assessment?

Thanks very much.

My Grannies 'button tin' was full of these Daveyboy. It is 50 odd years ago now but the memories have stayed with me of my weekends spent with my Grandparents. Grannies button tin was a biscuit tin full of mainly buttons and some real treasures, Grandads ,Silver War badge' being one of them. Sadly now lost. When a button came off my shirt Grandad would tell me to go ask yer Grannie she'll find ya one in 'er tin. So asking Grannie for a button was fun as she would tell me the story of where the button had come from. I has metal ones from 'Yer Grandads army shirts' which I was so proud of. I had one of these on each shirt cuff. 'Now these come from yer Grandads long Johns'.

They must have been old but I don't know if they came off army long johns or ones he later bought, probably the latter as he would have lost most of his kit when the ship he was being evacuated on was sunk in the channel by a U Boat torpedo. 

[Daveyboy]

21 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

A fine jacket.  I have a vision of the young officer fumbling with urgency at the button that was regularly unfastened and it coming off between finger and thumb, leaving the thread remnants on the garment and him placing the button in his jacket pocket, perhaps thinking his batman would replace it later.  All speculation, but entirely possible.

I like that speculation!

[Daveyboy]

21 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

My Grannies 'button tin' was full of these Daveyboy. It is 50 odd years ago now but the memories have stayed with me of my weekends spent with my Grandparents. Grannies button tin was a biscuit tin full of mainly buttons and some real treasures, Grandads ,Silver War badge' being one of them. Sadly now lost. When a button came off my shirt Grandad would tell me to go ask yer Grannie she'll find ya one in 'er tin. So asking Grannie for a button was fun as she would tell me the story of where the button had come from. I has metal ones from 'Yer Grandads army shirts' which I was so proud of. I had one of these on each shirt cuff. 'Now these come from yer Grandads long Johns'.

They must have been old but I don't know if they came off army long johns or ones he later bought, probably the latter as he would have lost most of his kit when the ship he was being evacuated on was sunk in the channel by a U Boat torpedo. 

It's amazing those small details we remember of our grandparents, bless 'em!  Such a shame about the silver badge, something that no doubt has happened in many families over the years.  Thanks for sharing, Bob.

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, Daveyboy said:

I like that speculation!

The Y-front design (and so buttonless) wasn’t invented until 1935, so hence rather a lot of ‘fumbling’ before then.

[Daveyboy]

6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The Y-front design (and so buttonless) wasn’t invented until 1935, so hence rather a lot of ‘fumbling’ before then.

I can imagine - not what you want when you're in a hurry and have to navigate a button fly on the breeches too!  I have come around to your thoughts that the button had come off some clothing, as are there a couple of holes in the linen that would have created when it was sewn onto something.  

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Daveyboy said:

I can imagine - not what you want when you're in a hurry and have to navigate a button fly on the breeches too!  I have come around to your thoughts that the button had come off some clothing, as are there a couple of holes in the linen that would have created when it was sewn onto something.  

The inevitable result of repeated fumbling of the same button over and over again whilst living in the field.