xv crs

[Dirty Harry]

i have never heard of this term, does anyone have a clue?

 

thanks 

[RussT]

Fifteenth (i.e. XV) Corps Rest Station

Regards

Russ

[Dirty Harry]

brilliant !

 

thanks russ

 

one more question.... whats the difference between the corps rest station and the convalscent depot?

[RussT]

18 minutes ago, Dirty Harry said:

whats the difference between the corps rest station and the convalscent depot?

I'm not certain - does the LLT offer any advice?

I could be wrong but I thought a Convalescent Depot is where a man went after he was discharged from hospital (so frees up a bed) but is not quite fit enough/recovered enough to go back in the line/do his normal duties and hence has to convalesce first. On the other hand a CRS was a place a man went direct from the front line/his normal duties because he literally needed a rest - due to minor sickness/wounds, he was worn out etc. He might get worse and if so, off he went to a Base Hospital. But most in a CRS returned to duty after a few days.

So I think Convalescent Depots were near Base Hospitals whereas CRS were closer to the Front Line - in the Corps rear area and run by the Corps.

As I say, this is just a gut feel - I'll be happy to learn more if wrong.

Russ

 

[Dirty Harry]

Interesting!

 

thanks Russ

 

ive not seen any work on corps. Must have poke through wd 

[Chris_Baker]

The war diary of XV Corps Deputy Director of Medical Services may give you a precise location for the CRS.

[Dirty Harry]

ddms writing is a bit dodgy, cant really figure out if he means the rest station is being made by 138th Field Ambulance, 41st Division 

 

Slightly off topic, but would these in 1918 been build vclose to the corps infantry bases ?

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, Dirty Harry said:

is being made by

Is being run by

[smclaren]

Just researching XV Corps Rest Station (CRS) ... as my grandfather (NZEF) was a guest there, after getting shot by a German Machine Gun on the 25th of September 1916 during the Battle of Flers. He ended up there after being sent to the XV Casualty Clearing Station first ... which I think was somewhere around Dernancourt, as the XV Corps Main Dressing Station was there. My challenge is trying to find out where it (XV CRS) was actually located as my grandfather gives a great account of his time there. Following at the end of this post are his diary entries.

In terms of an explanation of a CRS and the difference of the CCS ... this from the official NEW ZEALAND MEDICAL SERVICE IN THE GREAT WAR 1914-1918 ...

"Passing now into the hands of the medical officers his wounds were redressed, if necessary, and such surgical treatment as was demanded by splinting, removal of small superficial foreign bodies and so forth, was given, which being done the medical officer entered a description of the injury on the buff slip and the field medical card which was returned to its envelope and remained attached to the man, but the buff slip, purely an inter-departmental chit, passed back to the record PAGE 215office now bearing the official diagnosis and by its means the A36 was compiled. Great accuracy was required in the entries in the A. and D. books, and in the A36, as may be readily understood, as they furnished a permanent record of the man's injury and disposal. Behind the dressing rooms were two marquees marked respectively C.C.S. and C.R.S. (corps rest station), into these tents, also warmed by braziers, the men proceeded: cases requiring hospital treatment, for C.C.S.; others who might be anticipated to recover after a few days' rest, to the C.R.S. And as they accumulated, in batches of 25, they were marched to the evacuating officer. Separate roads for incoming and outgoing traffic had been delimited and later well metalled with broken bricks from the ruins of Bécordel. The average load of a char-a-banc was 25, of a motor lorry, 18, of a M.A.C. Car, 7 sitters; so the evacuating officer, after due scrutiny of the destination marked on the envelope of their field cards, disposed them and despatched them on their voyage to the rear. "

And here is my grandfathers diary entries. It's a fascinating insight into parts of the Battle of the Somme for one solder.

Cpl George McLaren 12/2419 1st Auckland Infantry Battalion NZEF

26/9/1916 Tuesday - We charged at 12.35 and took our objective. Lieut Ellisdon got hit about 100yrds from our front line, he was next to me. I pulled him into a shell hole and left him there and went on, he looked pretty bad. Germans went for their lines. I got hit with machine gun bullet at the sunken road. Thought it went right through right arm, but it has not. “Hard Luck”. On my way back, I put two badly wounded chaps in shell holes. Stewy & I had a devil of a time coming back, road to dressing station, it was being heavily shelled. We got into a Germans dugout in Flers. Saw Willy Aitken on my way back at one dressing station. Got a nip of rum & cake from him, it was decent. Passed through three different Ambulance Stations, and then into here about midnight. This is a sort of a rest camp. My wound is slight and will be alright in a day or two. This morning is fine. Bill McGregor is here and a good few N.Z.er’s. There is a small village here. I think it is called Beaures (?)

27/9/1916 Wednesday - This is a starvation show. Military biscuits & cheese for tea. One slice of dry bread and a small piece of bacon for breakfast. Dinner not worth mentioning. Had no blanket last night. They have only blankets here for half the men, same with pannicam. You have to wait till someone else finishes before you can get your tea to drink. “Splendid RAMC”.

28/9/1916 Thursday - Same old breakfast, one slice of dry bread and a morsel of bacon, “not lean” for breakfast. George Wouldes is also here. We went into village here afternoon and had a feed of tea & cakes. Wrote letter to Doll. Broke a false tooth tonight on these hard biscuits.

29/9/1916 Friday - I was going to go out today but it is too wet, raining hard, will go tomorrow. This show is not fit for pigs. 

30/9/1916 Saturday - Asked the Dr to let me go back to my unit, and he let me. Kavanaugh is here, wounded about the face, and getting no treatment much for it. Left the starved rest camp about 3pm in a motor lorry and came around Albert to the hill here where our Duds are, just beside Fricourt.  

[RussT]

You need to go carefully through the War Diary of the XV Corps Deputy Director Medical Services for the period of interest.

The WD is free to download from the NA under WO/95/928/1.

I did a very quick scan and spotted an entry for 14/09/1916 which tells us that the 2/1st West Lancashire FA (55th Division) relieved the 21st FA (7th Division) at Corps Rest Station (BUIRE).

The FA War Diaries should give the daily activities during their respective manning of the XV CRS.

Regards

Russ

 

[smclaren]

Thanks for the info, Russ ... especially thanks for the directions to the XV Medial Services history. That has answered all the questions I had for this period of my grandfathers wounding during his second action on the Somme. Brilliant !!

I now know that ... after being wounded on the 25th, his trip consisted of going to the Regimental Aid Posts (probably in Flers), then to Advanced Dressing Stations at some or all at Thistle Alley, Longueval, Green Dump & Flat-Iron.  From there to the XV CCS and then XV CRS.

- the XV Casualty Clearing Station was at Becordel, just to the west of Fricourt and thus just behind the action on the 25th of September 1916. Lots of NZEF casualty records name the 15CCS .. but with no detail of where it was.

- the XV Corps Rest Station (15CRS) was situated at Buire (so just next door to Dernancourt - the XV Main Dressing Station). My Grandfather had written ... "There is a small village here. I think it is called Beaures." I could never find it based on that name, which he had guessed wrong. I had a sense that it must be in this area as some of the tragic NZ deaths from the action on the 25th have been laid to rest in the cemetery at Méricourt.

Thanks again

Steve

[Alan24]

My GGF was in the artillery, 125 HB, which was under the command of XV Corps during the Battle of the Somme (up to 31 Oct.)

In his diary he notes that he went to the rest camp at Vivier Mill, north-west of Meaulte on 12 13 14 and 15 Aug 1916. (Map ref 62D.E.16.a.6.3)

His Battery was at Mametz Bottom Wood at that time, which is quite close. 

I am making the assumption that small groups of men were sent in turn, having been in action continously since before 1 July.

 

 

 

 

[Dirty Harry]

On 26/09/2023 at 02:22, smclaren said:

Thanks for the info, Russ ... especially thanks for the directions to the XV Medial Services history. That has answered all the questions I had for this period of my grandfathers wounding during his second action on the Somme. Brilliant !!

I now know that ... after being wounded on the 25th, his trip consisted of going to the Regimental Aid Posts (probably in Flers), then to Advanced Dressing Stations at some or all at Thistle Alley, Longueval, Green Dump & Flat-Iron.  From there to the XV CCS and then XV CRS.

- the XV Casualty Clearing Station was at Becordel, just to the west of Fricourt and thus just behind the action on the 25th of September 1916. Lots of NZEF casualty records name the 15CCS .. but with no detail of where it was.

- the XV Corps Rest Station (15CRS) was situated at Buire (so just next door to Dernancourt - the XV Main Dressing Station). My Grandfather had written ... "There is a small village here. I think it is called Beaures." I could never find it based on that name, which he had guessed wrong. I had a sense that it must be in this area as some of the tragic NZ deaths from the action on the 25th have been laid to rest in the cemetery at Méricourt.

Thanks again

Steve

Thanks Steve, great piece of detective work !