QMAAC Depot Hostel Eastern Command

[TrevorHH]

Hi All,

Can someone please tell me where this hostel for the QMAAC was and also what its function was ie for training or for mwmbers of the QMAAC working in the area. I am researching the Unit Administrator here who was Beatrice Lithiby the war artist for an article about her.

Many thanks

Trevor

[KizmeRD]

The location was presumably somewhere in the surrounding area of Ampthill, Bedfordshire.

MB

[Gunner 87]

On 08/03/2023 at 19:44, TrevorHH said:

Hi All,

Can someone please tell me where this hostel for the QMAAC was and also what its function was ie for training or for mwmbers of the QMAAC working in the area. I am researching the Unit Administrator here who was Beatrice Lithiby the war artist for an article about her.

Many thanks

Trevor

H Trevor, there is a press article from 1917 listing Miss Lithiby as being the Deputy Unit Administrator of the W.A.A.C. at Hastings. which appears to be a training unit for W.A.A.C. and subsequently Q.M.A.A.C before moving to Folkestone, for all members being sent overseas.

This very helpful thread and comment by FREV maybe of assistance regarding training.

Gunner

 

[FROGSMILE]

From your description it seems likely, to me, to be the QMAAC Hostel (i.e. single sex accommodation) for girls/women working at Eastern Command’s Command Depot (final stage convalescent centre), which was established at Ampthill late in 1916.  The camp area had previously been the training centre for war raised battalions of the Bedfordshire Regiment.

The QMAAC women generally ran the canteens, laundries and cookhouses, and provided clerical assistance to supplement the older men who staffed the various administrative offices.

For reasons of contemporary gender propriety the women were generally accommodated somewhere discreetly separate from the large numbers of men passing through the depot.  This was seemingly a standard arrangement for all camps where QMAAC were employed**.

‘Hostels’ were generally overseen by a QMAAC official (quasi officer), as a kind of housekeeper/matron in residence acting as in loco parentis.  Given the criterion required I agree with forum member KizmeRD that the hostelry was probably not far away from the Ampthill Command Depot itself, perhaps in a temporarily redundant guesthouse, or private dwelling granted over for the duration of the war.  Similarly a large house was given up as a convalescent hospital nearby.  In many other camps the QMAAC were simply accommodated in standard huts, but separate from the men’s area.

The accommodation was usually within a short transportable distance by vehicle, with the women brought in each morning and returned each evening.  The woman in charge of the hostel would run it rather like a guest house, but with a disciplined, typically hierarchical regime, along with a few domestic staff to assist her (cooking, laundering and cleaning of the public areas, etc.).

**in France at places like Etaples the QMAAC were accommodated in the same style huts as the men, but in separate, wired off and guarded secure compounds.
 

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[TrevorHH]

Dear AlL

Many thanks so far for the comments on the QMAAC Depot where Beatrice Lithiby was based. The fact she was there is written on the reverse of the attached photo. I have been prompted to write an article (due in the Wantage Herald next month) by the staging of a temporary exhibition which includes her entitled "Celebrating Local Women" at the Vale and Downland Museum in Wantage where I volunteer every week. See here:

https://valeanddownlandmuseum.org.uk/celebrating-local-women/

For those interested, since the establishment of the exhibition, I have established that  her intended was 2nd Lt H F C Skinner 1st South Wales Borderers who was killed at Munster Alley near Pozieres on 25th July 1916.

 

Thanks again

Kind regards

Trevor

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, TrevorHH said:

Dear AlL

Many thanks so far for the comments on the QMAAC Depot where Beatrice Lithiby was based. The fact she was there is written on the reverse of the attached photo. I have been prompted to write an article (due in the Wantage Herald next month) by the staging of a temporary exhibition which includes her entitled "Celebrating Local Women" at the Vale and Downland Museum in Wantage where I volunteer every week. See here:

https://valeanddownlandmuseum.org.uk/celebrating-local-women/

For those interested, since the establishment of the exhibition, I have established that  her intended was 2nd Lt H F C Skinner 1st South Wales Borderers who was killed at Munster Alley near Pozieres on 25th July 1916.

 

Thanks again

Kind regards

Trevor

“All women selected [for the WAAC], except those chosen for employment with local units, will in the first instance be posted to receiving depot hostels. These are now being established in London, Birmingham, Cardiff, Warrington, Edinburgh, Bristol, Doncaster, Newcastle and Dublin**, and a special hostel has been established for women chosen for foreign service [i.e. those going on active service to a theatre of war]....The candidate will be interviewed and asked to fill in a form giving particulars of her age, experience, references &c., and the capacity in which she wishes to serve, if she appears on the whole suitable, her references will be taken up and if these again prove satisfactory, her name will be sent forward and she will in due course be invited to attend before a Selection and Medical Board. The Selection Board will consist of a local administrator of the Corps, a representative of the Employment Department, an Army officer called in to advise in technical cases where women with special qualifications are required, and such additional members may be necessary, meeting under the chairmanship of the Recruiting Controller, who will be a woman appointed by the Adjutant-General's Department.“

See: https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/regiment.php?pid=17692

**these locations probably relate to one per regional command (i.e. Northern, Eastern, etc.etc.).

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

Trevor - nice to have more of the background regarding this lady and your interest in her.
Knowing now that she spent pretty much the entirety of her time in the QMAAC based in France (foreign service) there is another possible location for ‘Eastern Command Depot - QMAAC Hostel’ and that is Shoreham-by-Sea (which as I understand it was used as a staging camp for those about to be deployed on the Western Front). I’m not really an expert on military matters as I usually post on naval topics, so would much appreciate further input from Frogsmile.

MB

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Trevor - nice to have more of the background regarding this lady and your interest in her.
Knowing now that she spent pretty much the entirety of her time in the QMAAC based in France (foreign service) there is another possible location for ‘Eastern Command Depot - QMAAC Hostel’ and that is Shoreham-by-Sea (which as I understand it was used as a staging camp for those about to be deployed on the Western Front). I’m not really an expert on military matters as I usually post on naval topics, so would much appreciate further input from Frogsmile.

MB

Brilliant!  That chimes very neatly with: “ a special hostel has been established for women chosen for foreign service”.

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

Trevor - does the photo have a date stamp?

MB

Edit - no need to answer that! - I now see that the photo is part of the IWM collection and written on the back is ‘Unit Administrator, Depot Hostel, Eastern Command, 21 January 1918’. That then suggests that her Wiki entry is somewhat misleading, in that she didn’t in fact spend ‘18 months in France’ (ref. Catherine Speck’s book). She may well have had some time abroad, but her war history clearly now needs additional research in order to verify what’s being claimed.

 

 

Edited 10 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[FROGSMILE]

28 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Trevor - does the photo have a date stamp?

MB

Edit - no need to answer that! - I now see that the photo is part of the IWM collection and written on the back is ‘Unit Administrator, Depot Hostel, Eastern Command, 21 January 1918’. That then suggests that her Wiki entry is somewhat misleading, in that she didn’t in fact spend ‘18 months in France’ (ref. Catherine Speck’s book). She may well have had some time abroad, but her war history clearly now needs additional research in order to verify what’s being claimed.

Looking at the list of depot hostel locations above, which one do you think is geographically most likely to be that for Eastern Command?

[KizmeRD]

Her Medal Index Card shows an entitlement to BWM only. WO 372/23/25234.

I’m inclined to believe that after joining the WAAC’s in August 1917, she spent most of her time serving at Ampthill, then (after the Armistice) she was invited to go to France as an artist in order to record the work of the QMAAC on behalf of the IWM.

She joined up on 4 August 1917 and left the Corps 5 December 1919.

MB

Edit https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Paintings_of_World_War_I_by_Beatrice_Ethel_Lithiby

Edited 10 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Her Medal Index Card shows an entitlement to BWM only. WO 372/23/25234.

I’m inclined to believe that after joining the WAAC’s in August 1917, she spent most of her time serving at Ampthill, then (after the Armistice) she was invited to go to France as an artist in order to record the work of the QMAAC on behalf of the IWM.

She joined up on 4 August 1917 and left the Corps 5 December 1919.

MB

Edit https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Paintings_of_World_War_I_by_Beatrice_Ethel_Lithiby

Do think that perhaps Ampthill was added to that original list of Depot Hostels then?  The list above was that declared initially when the corps was formed in 1917, so perhaps Ampthill was inadvertently omitted, or added subsequently.  I was trying to work out which one in the list was nearest to Eastern Command’s centre of gravity.

 

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[TrevorHH]

Dear all

 

Many thanks for the additional comments which are most helpful. Beatrice Lithiby's entry in the medal roll is strange. See attached. As you can see it says 3/11/1917 to 7/11/17. A total of 5 days. At first I thought this might be a typo but from your comments above it looks like she just made a quick visit to the Western Front in 1917. Any thoughts? 

 

Thanks

Trevor

Edited 10 March , 2023 by TrevorHH

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, TrevorHH said:

Dear all

 

Many thanks for the aaditional comments which are most helpful. Beatrice Lithiby's entry in the medal roll is strange. See attached. As you can see it says 3/11/1917 to 7/11/17. A total of 5 days. At first I thought this might be a typo but from your comments above it looks like she just made a quick visit to the Western Front in 1917. Any thoughts? 

Thanks

Trevor

If she didn’t receive the medal then any swift visit wasn’t sufficient to qualify.

Apparently HQ Eastern Command was in London: initially at Horse Guards, then (from February 1916) at 50 Pall Mall, London; in 1919 it moved to 41 Queen's Gardens, Bayswater.

It suggests that if the caption on the back of her photo is correct then she was in London and the “Unit Administrator” at the Depot Hostel there (see list of WAAC hostel locations above).

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[TrevorHH]

Catherine Speck's book which I have in front of me says she was commissioned by the IWM in February 1919 to go to France and spent close on six months there in 1919, in Dieppe Calais, Abbeville Rouen and Le Harve but not Etaples and was given an allowance but was not paid for her artwork .

Trevor

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, TrevorHH said:

Catherine Speck's book which I have in front of me says she was commissioned by the IWM in February 1919 to go to France and spent close on six months there in 1919, in Dieppe Calais, Abbeville Rouen and Le Harve but not Etaples and was given an allowance but was not paid for her artwork .

Trevor

Yes that doesn’t surprise me, as she was clearly very keen, but she would not have qualified for a medal for periods overseas after the Armistice.

[KizmeRD]

OK then, let’s concede Amptshill as a likely red herring.

On reflection, I think that a lady such as Beatrice would have been far more at home in Bayswater. And a prominent job at HQ certainly wouldn’t have hurt her chances any of having her name put forward for an MBE.

In any case, her paintings of QMAAC work in France were very good indeed.

MB

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

OK then, let’s concede Amptshill as a likely red herring.

On reflection, I think that a lady such as Beatrice would have been far more at home in Bayswater. And a prominent job at HQ certainly wouldn’t have hurt her chances any of having her name put forward for an MBE.

In any case, her paintings of QMAAC work in France were very good indeed.

MB

I think you’ve summed the likely scenario up very well.

Like the OP though I’m very intrigued as to which exact building or guest house in London was used as the Eastern Command depot hostel.  

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

The Connaught Club was at 75 Seymour Street, Marble Arch, London, WC2, and was taken over by the War Office in April 1917 as the QMAACs Headquarters and Hostel (with accommodation for 200 plus ladies).

MB

Edited 10 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[FROGSMILE]

29 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

The Connaught Club was at 75 Seymour Street, Marble Arch, London, WC2, and was taken over by the War Office in April 1917 as the QMAACs Headquarters and Hostel (with accommodation for 200 plus ladies).

MB

Brilliant research, thank you.  The location certainly epitomises your comments about our heroine’s background making her more comfortable there!

The Connaught Club is now the Tri-Service Victory Services Club and still in the original building. 

Edited 10 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

Correction - 49 Grosvenor Street was the HQ office building for admin, and 75 Seymour Street was the Hostel (both Bayswater).

See attached - for interest only…

MB

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Correction - 49 Grosvenor Street was the HQ office building for admin, and 75 Seymour Street was the Hostel (both Bayswater).

See attached - for interest only…

MB

That’s three different addresses.  I’m not entirely sure what the purpose was of the Connaught Club in Seymour St (although the advert implies accommodation).  The administrative offices were clearly at Grosvenor Street, and the overnight accommodation and rest rooms in Eaton Square.  Perhaps Connaught was long term and Eaton Square for short stay overnighters.

Edited 11 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

Eaton Square was simply a nice place where any service woman passing through London on leave could stay, if they wished, at modest expense. (The navy equivalent to this was the Union Jack Club at Waterloo, and I’m sure that the army would have had similar too).

The Connaught Club building was leased bŷ the War Office in order to serve as the London Hostel (i.e. the residence/ accommodation building for QMAAC members posted to London on duty).

49 Grosvenor Street was the Mayfair office where the Corps was administered from.

MB

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

Eaton Square was simply a nice place where any service woman passing through London on leave could stay, if they wished, at modest expense. (The navy equivalent to this was the Union Jack Club at Waterloo, and I’m sure that the army would have had similar too).

The Connaught Club building was leased bŷ the War Office in order to serve as the London Hostel (i.e. the residence/ accommodation building for QMAAC members posted to London on duty).

49 Grosvenor Street was the Mayfair office where the Corps was administered from.

MB

 

Thank you MB, that’s crystal clear.  My word, weren’t we organised in those days!

Edited 11 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[KizmeRD]

From having read a few personal accounts too, it would appear that Seymour Street hostile also served as a collection point both for new intakes (who were processed there and then forwarded on to training establishments and other postings) and as somewhere where QMAAC’s returning from leave could meet-up with other girls and travel back to France in groups rather than as lone women.

MB