Royal Marine Physical Training Instructors Sleeve Badges

[PETER BROWN]

Hi Folks,

I am a former Royal Marines Physical Training Instructor and am doing research for history of the Royal Marines Physical Training Branch and would be very greatful for any helpful information. I have only just stumbled across the very interesting comments on the Royal Navy/ Royal Marines PT Instructor badges, which is of great interest to me.

In particular, I would like to know:

• Did the first RM PTI's wear a red crossed clubs badge , or did they use the Royal Navy PT Branch Blue crossed clubs badge and at what date?  
• When was the first crossed clubs badge worn by the Royal Marines, instead perhaps of the Army's crossed swords badge that preceded it?
• When was the crossed clubs badge first worn (year) by RM PTI's and who authorised it?
• Did Royal Marines PTI's first wear the blue-edged PT singlets and if so, when did it change to red blue-edged PT singlets worn by RM PTI's from 1950's onwards?

Any help on any of these questions this would be very much appreciated, 

Thank you.

Peter.

[horatio2]

Reference "Personal Distinctions - 350 Years of Royal Marines Uniforms and Insignia" by John Rawlinson (Royal Marines Historical Society Special Publication 41):-

IMG_20230307_0001.pdf

[horatio2]

From the same reference:-

(p.157): "Although a uniform is described for an Instructor of Gymnastics in the 1891 clothing book, there is no mention of this appointment in the Corps before 1897. The Army Gymnastic Staff was formed in 1860 and it is possible that ... the Corps may have introduced Instructors soon after ... the first instructor badges for naval gymnastic instructors were not introduced until 1890 and a similar badge was authorised for the Royal Marines in 1905."

(p.169):  "In March 1905 the pattern of badges for gunnery and gymnasia instructors changed from Army, Land pattern guns and crossed swords, to naval pattern guns and crossed clubs."

And (p.158):  "...in 1909 the term 'Physical Training' was substituted for Gymnastics'.".

The 1900 Establishment of the Corps lists 2 x QMSI Gymnastics - (1 x RMLI (Depot) and 1xRMA)

N.B. this Forum is for the Great War (1914-1918) and this topic scrosses but also strays well outside that date remit. It also has nothing to do with the topic title "RND Badge?".

Edited 7 March , 2023 by horatio2

[PETER BROWN]

1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

"Personal Distinctions - 350 Years of Royal Marines Uniforms and Insignia" by John Rawlinson

Thank you so much for this great information received and so very helpful as I put the pieces together.

I have already done my research (and an article) on "The Evolution of Military Gymnasia" and have found the oiginal plan for the new gymansium at the Depot RM, Deal, from 1867 (see attachment) and this was opened in 1871, so presumably had trained PT Instructors (trained by the Army?).  

Most grateful for this, or any other information, thank you.

 

 

HISTORY OF THE RM DEAL GYMNASIUM_compressed.pdf

[kenf48]

@PETER BROWN Welcome to the GWF

As noted by @horatio2 above this post is outside the period of the Great War and I have split it into a separate topic. You can change the title if you wish.

We'll keep it open should your research extend into the period studied here, the only alternative would be to lock it which I'm reluctant to do

I'm sure Horatio will help should you wish to continue this discussion by personal messages.

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