Navy records search...

[andy2014]

Hi All, Hope you are all well!

A family researcher has asked if I can help on a sailors research, I am getting better at Army etc but new to naval research, they have already done extensive work and the family has an extensive tree with records, censuses etc and dozens of Navy Lists records throughout his service but they all seem to end about March 1916.

The family have the story he served during the battle of Jutland and we are looking into if this is correct or not? 

The researcher has used Fold3 etc and I have look at Ancestry, there are hundreds of links in Navy lists and some popped up for 

1919 UK, Navy Lists, 1888-1970 - Ancestry.co.uk Engineering Commander, Battleship Queen.

His medal rolls award Star, Victory and British 

All records seem to end around 12th/14th March 1916, and afterwards as retired? he would have been 50 at retirement and during Jutland?

Are there any service records? I did find these on the National Archives Discovery but they are not digitised? are they records worth requesting that may answer our question.

Search results: ethelbert spiers | The National Archives

ADM 13/204/360 & ADM 13/205/367

His Details: Engineer Commander Ethelbert Spiers Silk

Born: 14th March 1866 to 4th Dec 1945

Family tree link to him.. Ethelbert Spiers Silk - Facts (ancestry.co.uk)

Any tips and help greatly appreciated! 

With Thanks Andy 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gunner 87]

Hi Andy. This article 'Table Talk' in the Otago Witness, issue 3267, 25th October 1916, appears to confirm Ethelbert was the Engineer-commander on HMS Queen at the time the piece was written. This vessel did not serve at Jutland. 

The Jutland Crew Lists Project, which I have just checked against with a negative result, is run by Trevor Penfold. He might be worth contacting via messenger on Facebook just to be sure officers are included. 

Gunner  

Edited 15 February , 2023 by Gunner 87

[andy2014]

5 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hi Andy. This article 'Table Talk' in the Otago Witness, issue 3267, 25th October 1916, appears to confirm Ethelbert was the Engineer-commander on HMS Queen at the time the piece was written. This vessel did not serve at Jutland. 

The Jutland Crew Lists Project, which I have just checked against with a negative result, is run by Trevor Penfold. He might be worth contacting via messenger on Facebook just to be sure officers are included. 

Gunner  

That's great thanks!

I did find a note for HMS Queen which I read as him been active service at the time after Jutland but as you say HMS Queen wasn't at Jutland but if he was active then perhaps he was on another ship then?

Thanks for looking, Andy 

[Gunner 87]

Andy, just for your info this is what I searched against https://battleofjutlandcrewlists.miraheze.org/w/index.php?search=+&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1

[andy2014]

15 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

Andy, just for your info this is what I searched against https://battleofjutlandcrewlists.miraheze.org/w/index.php?search=+&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1

That's wonderful Thanks, I guess he wasn't there if not on the site!

What a great site! 👍 

Thank you so much, Andy 

[RNCVR]

Engineer Commander Silk should have an Officers file in ADM 196 series.

[andy2014]

59 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Engineer Commander Silk should have an Officers file in ADM 196 series.

Great Thanks! Will look and see, still getting used to NA records searching..

Thanks again! 

Andy

[andy2014]

1 hour ago, RNCVR said:

Engineer Commander Silk should have an Officers file in ADM 196 series.

Nothing in ADM 196? 

[KizmeRD]

Engineer Commander (Acting Eng. Capt.) Silk’s name is included in all Navy Lists up until July 1919, after which his name appears under ‘Retired Engineer Commanders’. I think his ordinary retirement date would have been 14.3.1916, but his services were retained for the duration of the war.

MB

Edited 15 February , 2023 by KizmeRD

[andy2014]

52 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Engineer Commander (Acting Eng. Capt.) Silk’s name is included in all Navy Lists up until July 1919, after which his name appears under ‘Retired Engineer Commanders’. I think his ordinary retirement date would have been 14.3.1916, but his services were retained for the duration of the war.

MB

Thanks, that's what I found, but can see nothing linking him to Jutland or a ship there? No service records found yet? Thanks for looking! Looks like family story may have put his continued service and Jutland together and assumed he was there? 

Regards Andy 

[RNCVR]

I dont understand why Silk would not have a record in ADM 196, that is very unusual to me.

  Perhaps @horatio2might have a look he is very good at obtaining these ADM files.

[andy2014]

12 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

I dont understand why Silk would not have a record in ADM 196, that is very unusual to me.

  Perhaps @horatio2might have a look he is very good at obtaining these ADM files.

Yep! Clearly continued active service and retired after March 1916 until 1919... need service record with ships and dates to prove where and when to confirm one way or the other? But Jutland site points to him not being there? 

With Thanks

Andy

[simonharley]

Silk would normally have been automatically retired on reaching the age of 50 (under the provisions of the order in council of 19 March 1908), but was retained on the active list (under the order in council of 3 August 1914, I believe). He was finally placed on the retired list in March 1920, dating from 14 March  1916, with the rank of Engineer Captain: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31816/page/2905

Edit: Navy Lists shows that Silk was appointed as an overseer at Yarrow & Co., Scotstoun, on 12 March 1916, and was still there in July 1919.

Edited 16 February , 2023 by simonharley

[RNCVR]

As I was interested in the two medal ribbons Silk is wearing...

From 1907 Leans Naval List of War Services of Officers -  SILK E.E. -  "East & West Africa medal, Witu 1890 clasp, Assistant Engineer HMS Conquest:;

& China 1900, "Engineer HMS Endymion, landed with the Naval Bde for the advance to Pekin."  Silk might have qualified for the Relief of Pekin clasp, A check of ADM 171 (China 1900 medal roll) would be necessary to confirm this. 

[andy2014]

1 hour ago, simonharley said:

Silk would normally have been automatically retired on reaching the age of 50 (under the provisions of the order in council of 19 March 1908), but was retained on the active list (under the order in council of 3 August 1914, I believe). He was finally placed on the retired list in March 1920, dating from 14 March  1916, with the rank of Engineer Captain: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31816/page/2905

Great Thanks!

[andy2014]

8 hours ago, simonharley said:

Silk would normally have been automatically retired on reaching the age of 50 (under the provisions of the order in council of 19 March 1908), but was retained on the active list (under the order in council of 3 August 1914, I believe). He was finally placed on the retired list in March 1920, dating from 14 March  1916, with the rank of Engineer Captain: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31816/page/2905

Edit: Navy Lists shows that Silk was appointed as an overseer at Yarrow & Co., Scotstoun, on 12 March 1916, and was still there in July 1919.

That's interesting! Clarifies where he was after retirement. Doing his bit here! Thanks for that!

Andy