Washington Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 Hello , would really appreciate any help given in trying to find more information on my great grandfather Elijah B Bracey of Grimsby, I have found snippets indicating he was involved in war at sea ( photos attached ) possibly RNR? Struggling in where to go next. many thanks james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 He served from July 1917 as a Trimmer in the Trawler Section of the Royal Naval Reserve. He was demobilised and discharged from the RNR after the war. His RNR record can be downloaded (free) here:- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8577677 Please come back with any questions about the record. A web search will help with details on the named ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted 14 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2023 3 minutes ago, horatio2 said: He served from July 1917 as a Trimmer in the Trawler Section of the Royal Naval Reserve. He was demobilised and discharged from the RNR after the war. His RNR record can be downloaded (free) here:- https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8577677 Please come back with any questions about the record. A web search will help with details on the named ships. Oh thank you Horatio :-) very much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 There was no HM Trawler EDWARD CONNOR. I think you must be referring to HMT JAMES CONNOR. Her base movements :- HMS SATELLITE INorth/South Shields base) from 5/10/17; HMS DREEL CASTLE (Falmouth base) from 12/10/17; HMS EGMONT II (Malta accounting base for vessels operating from the Port Said base) from 20/11/17; HMS RESEARCH (Portland base) from 5/3/19; She was an Admiralty-owned trawler:- JAMES CONNOR, Admiralty trawler, Castle-class, Adty No 3700. Launched 19.7.17, Harkness. 275grt/360 tons/547 tons deep, 134(oa), 125x23x13ft. TE 480ihp, 10.5kts. Armament: 1-12pdr. Crew: 15, up to 18 with wireless. Renamed WAVENEY 9.20. Sold 1922 to Spain UAD MULUYA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 Where does your "EDWARD CONNOR" snippet come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted 14 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2023 “Great Grimsby family history” page men of Grimsby - B so this could well be incorrect then ? 1 hour ago, horatio2 said: Where does your "EDWARD CONNOR" snippet come from? 1 hour ago, horatio2 said: There was no HM Trawler EDWARD CONNOR. I think you must be referring to HMT JAMES CONNOR. Her base movements :- HMS SATELLITE INorth/South Shields base) from 5/10/17; HMS DREEL CASTLE (Falmouth base) from 12/10/17; HMS EGMONT II (Malta accounting base for vessels operating from the Port Said base) from 20/11/17; HMS RESEARCH (Portland base) from 5/3/19; She was an Admiralty-owned trawler:- JAMES CONNOR, Admiralty trawler, Castle-class, Adty No 3700. Launched 19.7.17, Harkness. 275grt/360 tons/547 tons deep, 134(oa), 125x23x13ft. TE 480ihp, 10.5kts. Armament: 1-12pdr. Crew: 15, up to 18 with wireless. Renamed WAVENEY 9.20. Sold 1922 to Spain UAD MULUYA. Thank so much for this info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 1 hour ago, Washington said: “Great Grimsby family history” page men of Grimsby - B so this could well be incorrect then ? Not only is the name of the trawler incorrectly stated, but also the man’s rating. He was a ‘Trimmer’, not a ‘Seaman’. HM Trawler James Connor was based at Falmouth during 1917 (DREEL CASTLE) MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted 14 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2023 5 hours ago, KizmeRD said: Not only is the name of the trawler incorrectly stated, but also the man’s rating. He was a ‘Trimmer’, not a ‘Seaman’. HM Trawler James Connor was based at Falmouth during 1917 (DREEL CASTLE) MB Thank you BT-377-7-116862 GG BRACEY.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted 14 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2023 Just to clarify your opinion please guys, do you think he was sailing on the Hm James Connor throughout , and the other names ie egmont ,deel castle & satellite are just bases ? BT-377-7-116862 GG BRACEY.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 (edited) A good question, given the alterations in his early record. These make the answer problematic. On first enrolment (16 July 1917) he either went direct to HMS VIVID (Devonport barracks) or he went first to HMS PEKIN (Grimsby base) for a couple of weeks and then was drafted down to VIVID on 2 August. At this time HMS JAMES CONNOR was fitting out at Middlesbrough, where she had been launched on 9 July. After twelve weeks JAMES CONNOR was moved up to South Shields (HMS SATELLITE) on 5 October. Trimmer Bracey’s record shows that he had been drafted north to SATELLITE a week earlier, on 28 September, possibly in anticipation of JAMES CONNOR being commissioned for service. From this time (based on date evidence) it seems that Bracey and JAMES CONNOR are linked. On 12 October they both arrive at the Falmouth base (HMS DREEL CASTLE) and this is the only date when JAMES CONNOR appears in Bracey’s RNR record. The trawler probably only stays a couple of weeks at Falmouth, equipping for passage. From Falmouth JAMES CONNOR sails out to the Eastern Mediterranean and from 20 November the trawler and Trimmer Bracey are both on the books of HMS EGMONT at Malta, the trawler being on the books of EGMONT II for boats based at Port Said. Trimmer and trawler both remain in the Med until early 1919 and both have UK arrival dates of 5 March 1919. From that date Trimmer Bracey and his trawler home for the previous fifteen months seem to have parted company. I have JAMES CONNOR based at Portland (HMS RESEARCH) but Bracey is drafted onto the books of HMS IDAHO, the base at Milford Haven. From there he was demobilised on 12 November or 10 December 1919 (two dates are recorded). There is nothing in the RNR record to account for his employment during 1919 at IDAHO. It is even possible (I have no evidence) that JAMES CONNOR also moved to Milford Haven (IDAHO). That is, in my opinion, the most probable sequence of drafts but these records are rarely 100% crystal-clear. Edited 15 February , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 (edited) I have now located the skipper of HMS JAMES CONNOR (from 4 April 1918): William Smith JAMES RNR (15424.DA - a promoted deck hand). His record shows [appatently] that JAMES CONNOR was transferred from the Portland base (HMS RESEARCH) to the Milford Haven base (HMS IDAHO) on 1 April 1919, a month after returning to UK from the Med. His RNR record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8522922 Strangely, he is noted as Dischaged Dead (no details) on 28 March 1919 but I can find no CWGC record of this. I seems, therefore, that Trimmer Bracey and HMS JAMES CONNOR may, indeed, have met again at Milford Haven but the evidence remains unclear. Edit - found SkipperWS James on CWGC buried on Malta. More problems! https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/116543/w-s-james/ Edited 15 February , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 6 hours ago, horatio2 said: SkipperWS James on CWGC buried on Malta. It is possible that he did not skipper HMS JAMES CONNOR back to UK inlate February/early March 1919 but, because of illness, was left behind in Malta, dying a month later still borne in HMS EGMONT. The anomalous entries in his record for IDAHO and RESEARCH post-date his death but may, nonetheless be true for the movements of JAMES CONNOR. A knotty problem. Grateful for any further clues/ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted 15 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2023 1 hour ago, horatio2 said: It is possible that he did not skipper HMS JAMES CONNOR back to UK inlate February/early March 1919 but, because of illness, was left behind in Malta, dying a month later still borne in HMS EGMONT. The anomalous entries in his record for IDAHO and RESEARCH post-date his death but may, nonetheless be true for the movements of JAMES CONNOR. A knotty problem. Grateful for any further clues/ideas. Interesting stuff Heratio thank you, im afraid all I can offer to this right now is ideas / conjecture .. could the paperwork on the skippers record have been completed ( in his absence due to death) as a formality, to ensure payment was made to his family, as it appears he was very close to the end of possible contract/ period of service. ? could the Hmt James Connor have made a trip back to Malta ( in vein ) to collect the skipper.. or maybe due to possible incident, the ship needed some repair.? on another slightly different note. I was scrolling through the names of those buried in Malta, and was surprised at the amount from HMS Egmont , many different dates and different ranks. This interested me as I was led to believe the Egmont was a ship that had a fair few name changes and even movements during ww1, eventually leaving the name at Malta base itself, I guess my question is, if a sailor was injured / ill and died receiving care at HMS Egmont , would that be recorded as his last ship? Obviously this east the case for the skipper of the James Connor .. also I noticed a few buried with the ship name of europa , this catches my eye as my other great grandfather ( on my mums side ) served from her ( as a base , europa ii ) on HMS M17 So again does the name of the parent / base ship generally get named upon death ? or was there actually two HMS EGMONTS i & ii, and same with HMS EUROPA..? my brain becomes a bit of a knotty mess when I have a spell of doing this research ***, so your assistance is hugely appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 2 hours ago, Washington said: he was very close to the end of possible contract/ period of service. ? As a Temporary Skipper he was liable to demob as the war ended but this seems an unlikely reason. 2 hours ago, Washington said: could the Hmt James Connor have made a trip back to Malta ( in vein ) to collect the skipper.. or maybe due to possible incident, the ship needed some repair.? Unlikely, given the known timeframe. 2 hours ago, Washington said: Egmont was a ship that had a fair few name changes HMS EGMONT was the Malta shore base but (as required by naval practice at the time) had to be represented by a succession of 'nominal ships' in commission. Men serving ashore or in Malta-based ships (including those in hospital) were paid and administered by the EGMONT offices (EGMONT I and EGMONT II). This skipper died while 'on the books' of EGMONT. Aman who died while serving in HMS 'NONSUCH' would be recorded as a casualty of that ship, even if, for pay and admin, he was 'on the books' of HMS EGMONT I/II (or EUROPA I/II). EGMONT and EUROPA each had two office sub-divisions, dealing with specific categories. The large UK base HMS VICTORY at Portsmouth had ten sub-divions (VICTORY I to VICTORY X). 2 hours ago, Washington said: im afraid all I can offer to this right now is ideas / conjecture It is hard to understand these complicated records. Well done for trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 Most probably a victim of the global influenza pandemic. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 February , 2023 Share Posted 15 February , 2023 1 hour ago, KizmeRD said: a victim of the global influenza pandemic. Imdeed. An interweb search found this - https://www.militaryimages.net/media/g65-william-smith-james.131158/ [Wrongly described as "Mercantile Marine".] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 February , 2023 Share Posted 16 February , 2023 This sounds to me like a fairly prolonged illness being trteated in Bighi Hospital over, perhaps, a number of weeks. (GWF resident medics may care to comment.) If that is the case, I think that makes it likely that JAMES CONNOR returned to UK in early March 1919 with Trimmer Bracey but without her Skipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 16 February , 2023 Share Posted 16 February , 2023 Cause of death still unconfirmed (pulmonary complication?), but if it was influenza, then the following background info may be of interest… The Spanish flu first made an appearance in Malta around June 1918 and hung around until June 1919 and this initial outbreak was rather mild with just 93 cases reported and two fatalities. The first wave was then followed by a second, more severe phase. During September and October 1918, there were 10,281 cases in the civilian population, with a fatality rate of 3.9%. The epidemic then appeared to subside for a few month, only to be followed by a resurgence in March 1919 when a total of 4,507 cases were registered. This third wave of the epidemic culminated in mid-March, before falling rapidly in April. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 February , 2023 Share Posted 16 February , 2023 8 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: Cause of death still unconfirmed (pulmonary complication?) "nephritis and uremia post influenza." according to my earlier link to the "military images" website but I cannot tell whence that information came. It sounds plausible. Thanks for the Malta flu data. It fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 16 February , 2023 Share Posted 16 February , 2023 (edited) So in layman’s terms he died of renal failure after his kidneys gave out following a bout of severe influenza. Thank you for discovering that h2. MB Edited 16 February , 2023 by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now