RND Wireless

[Rockturner]

Can anyone assist with the identification of the portable wireless sets used by the RND Divisional Signal Company at Gallipoli.

These sets worked on the 'P' Wave - 300 metre band to communicate with ships. However, these sets were likely replaced with different sets once the division relocated to France.

Thanks in advance

LonerangerVC

[michaeldr]

6 hours ago, Rockturner said:

These sets worked on the 'P' Wave - 300 metre band to communicate with ships.

This is a fascinating question covering a subject [W/T] rarely, if ever, mentioned in the literature. 
I have not come across any details with ref to the RND, however I have seen a ref to what the RNAS 'planes on the Ark Royal were using at that time and in that theatre. Whilst this is not specifically relevant to your query, it may yet be of interest, or possibly even offer a clue (?)

See AIR 1/361 [unsigned & undated, but probably early 1915 – from 'The Naval Air Service, Vol. 1, 1908-1918' p.203]
One of the large 200hp seaplanes was fitted with a 250 Watt Renzet* Wireless Set, working on 830 foot [253m] wave, with a range of 50 miles; transmission only. The wavelength described as “sufficiently near to that used by TBDs for the messages to be picked up.”
Three smaller, 100hp Sopwith seaplanes were carried on the Ark Royal, and they could be fitted with “a light W/T transmitting set which is effective up to 10 miles. This set works on a 700 foot [213m] wave which can be received by TBDs.”

* Note the correct spelling given by Rockturner's post below - Rouzet

Edited 10 February , 2023 by michaeldr

[Rockturner]

Thanks Michael,

You are correct in what you say 'that wireless telegraphy rarely ever rates a mention in literature', which is probably accounts for why information is so difficult to pin down.

The question relates to the portable beach wireless stations at Helles and Anzac. The two central stations were provided and manned by RN personnel, however the other four were Australian Light Horse wireless signal troops equipped with half kilowatt Marconi pack wireless sets. These sets could not operate on the 300 metre 'P' Wave  (ships) and were exchanged with sets from the RND.

It was common practice to tune early sets to a set wave band so it probably easier to exchange these sets rather then re-tune them. 

I knew they had been exchanged but the only reference I could find was in a diary entry.

I'm also working on the RNAS wireless sets. Ark Royal had two early Sterling Type 52 sets and as you say there was one Rouzet set installed on one of the Short seaplanes.

LonerangerVC

 

[KizmeRD]

To the best of my (imperfect) understanding, the only naval ‘portable’ wireless sets known to exist at the time were the so called ‘Type 5’ spark sets which (as stated) transmitted on a wavelength of 1,000’/300m (‘P’ tune).

There was a WO pamphlet produced for the Gallipoli landings entitled ‘Signal Organisation for Combined Operations’, I read a copy a while ago, and basically the RE signallers were meant to adhere to RN operational procedures. The navy were responsible for manning and operating the two beach wireless units for shore to ship comms (naval gunnery support & logistics). 

Good luck with tracking down the information (it’s there to uncover, but there appears to be no easy route to the sort of detailed information that you are seeking). I’d be extremely interested in hearing anything that you turn up.

MB

 

 

Edited 12 February , 2023 by KizmeRD

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

Signal Organisation for Combined Operations

Per Brian N. Hall's paper 'The British Army & Wireless Communications, 1896-1918' [p.25/6] the above doc is to be seen in WO95/4268 (Director of Signals (1915 Apr - 1916 Jan)

[Rockturner]

Thanks MB and Michael,

The answer is indeed service Type 5 receivers.

The Mitchell Report p.508 explains; "Reception of aeroplane wireless signals was effected at Helles and Anzac in the first instance by means of receivers belonging to the Marconi half-kilowatt stations, which had been landed for communication between ships and beaches.  These receivers were not at all efficient and arrangements were made at both Helles and Anzac for service Type 5 receivers to be landed and installed for the reception of aircraft signals".

Since my last post I managed to make contact with a wireless a expert in the UK who wrote a paper on the Type 5 receiver which he has graciously forwarded to me.

It is easy sometimes lose your way under the weight of so much paperweight. However, in this instance not only has the question answered, but some specific information may be of interest.

Cheers

LonerangerVC

 

 

 

[michaeldr]

It's good to know that you're making progress on this subject. I'm also pleased to learn that the Mitchell Report has been of help here (somewhat annoyed that I did not think of it myself) - it's an often overlooked resource and in my opinion, can be a very valuable one.

Regards, Michael 

Edited 19 February , 2023 by michaeldr

[Rockturner]

Hi Michael,

By necessity my combined operations project requires that I cover land, sea and air resources. 

Wireless telegraphy for all of the above had therefore to be included.

My chapters are slowly gaining weight but the further I get into this subject, the more I am beginning to understand the complexity of it all.

However, it is interesting what is popping up on the page along the way.

Regards

LonerangerVC

 

[KizmeRD]

It was really the development of CW wireless technology that made portable wireless sets a practicable means of military communication for troops on the ground - but unfortunately the introduction of the British Army Trench Set came too late for Gallipoli. Most army units were still using ground cables, visual-signalling (and runners) for passing messages during the Campaign, and obviously those were serious limitations when working in a combined operations environment where it was also an operational necessity to be able to communicate effectively with ships and aircraft. Good luck with your project.

MB

https://www.commsmuseum.co.uk/transmitters/7 Type 5/pdfs/type5photos.pdf

 

Edited 19 February , 2023 by KizmeRD