Ww1 related spoon??

[Houtman69]

I found this spoon on a British artillery position from ww1. I have a few questions:

-Is this spoon from ww1?

'Does RGA stand for "Royal Garrison Artillery"?

-What are the numbers?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[GWF1967]

2 minutes ago, Houtman69 said:

 

-Is this spoon from ww1?

'Does RGA stand for "Royal Garrison Artillery"?

-What are the numbers?

Thanks in advance!!

 

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. 117120?  
 

A soak in some fizzy cola drink may clean it up enough to make the markings clearer. 

[Houtman69]

Thanks! I will try it in the following days and post the results/picture here!

[Houtman69]

By the way I'm pretty sure there is a '5' all the way to the right...

What do the numbers mean? Can they be linked to a soldier? 

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, Houtman69 said:

By the way I'm pretty sure there is a '5' all the way to the right...

What do the numbers mean? Can they be linked to a soldier? 

They can possibly be linked to a soldier. A clear view would certainly help. 

[Houtman69]

On 07/02/2023 at 21:34, GWF1967 said:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. 117120?  
 

A soak in some fizzy cola drink may clean it up enough to make the markings clearer. 

The number is 1171205 

[Gunner 87]

Hi Houtman69. There were two types of issue spoons used by British army in the Great War. The 'Fiddleback' was the earlier design issued from 1894 and the 'Old English' or 'Tear Drop' brought into service in 1917. Yours has the appearance of an 'Old English' spoon. I have attached mine which belonged to my Great Grandfather who served in the Royal Garrison Artillery (RGA) which is a 'Fiddleback' for comparison. 

Regarding the number, it looks to be seven digits and as such, likely post 1920 issue. I have searched 1171205 against Ancestry, Fold3 and the National Archives and no RGA soldier comes back. This is probably because the number is post the 1920 regulation changes. When I tapped it into the Army Number Search at the corpsofmilitarypolice.org facility, which identifies post 1920 army numbers, it came back as 'Royal Artillery (Field, Coastal & Anti-Aircraft) 1'. The RGA wasn't amalgamated with the RFA until 1924 so it could be the case your artefact is just post World War One. Find My Past have a database enabling an army number to be entered into  'Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942' but on submitting yours nothing was returned. 

Alternativley, again using the Find My Past database, 'Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942' missing off the first two digits, 71205 comes back to a Reginald Herbert. I haven't got further access to this site and cannot find Herbert anywhere else but could the first two digits stand for 11 Siege Battery which was an RGA unit. If so, the soldiers second number issued was 1040868 which is a post 1920 army number. 

I am no expert, and ready to be stand corrected , but I found the above information when looking into my spoon. Hopefully one of our more knowledgeable members will be able to identify a Gunner from the number. 

Regards Gunner 87. 

ps I have tagged a number of our artillery experts who maybe able to shed more light on the number

@David Porter

@kevinrowlinson

@ianjonesncl

 

 

Edited 9 February , 2023 by Gunner 87

[Houtman69]

This is another picture of the spoon after I cleaned it the best I could. 

I think the numbers say 1171205, but I am still unsure as it isn't that clearly stamped.

Let me know if you read/see other numbers!

[Houtman69]

2 hours ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hi Houtman69. There were two types of issue spoons used by British army in the Great War. The 'Fiddleback' was the earlier design issued from 1894 and the 'Old English' or 'Tear Drop' brought into service in 1917. Yours has the appearance of an 'Old English' spoon. I have attached mine which belonged to my Great Grandfather who served in the Royal Garrison Artillery (RGA) which is a 'Fiddleback' for comparison. 

Regarding the number, it looks to be seven digits and as such, likely post 1920 issue. I have searched 1171205 against Ancestry, Fold3 and the National Archives and no RGA soldier comes back. This is probably because the number is post the 1920 regulation changes. When I tapped it into the Army Number Search at the corpsofmilitarypolice.org facility, which identifies post 1920 army numbers, it came back as 'Royal Artillery (Field, Coastal & Anti-Aircraft) 1'. The RGA wasn't amalgamated with the RFA until 1924 so it could be the case your artefact is just post World War One. Find My Past have a database enabling an army number to be entered into  'Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942' but on submitting yours nothing was returned. 

Alternativley, again using the Find My Past database, 'Royal Artillery Attestations 1883-1942' missing off the first two digits, 71205 comes back to a Reginald Herbert. I haven't got further access to this site and cannot find Herbert anywhere else but could the first two digits stand for 11 Siege Battery which was an RGA unit. If so, the soldiers second number issued was 1040868 which is a post 1920 army number. 

I am no expert, and ready to be stand corrected , but I found the above information when looking into my spoon. Hopefully one of our more knowledgeable members will be able to identify a Gunner from the number. 

Regards Gunner 87. 

ps I have tagged a number of our artillery experts who maybe able to shed more light on the number

@David Porter

@kevinrowlinson

@ianjonesncl

 

 

Thank you for the response! Very interesting background history! I have just uploaded a new picture of the spoon after cleaning it. Maybe you could check the numbers out for yourself and see what you come up with.

Greetings

[GWF1967]

31 minutes ago, Houtman69 said:

Thank you for the response! Very interesting background history! I have just uploaded a new picture of the spoon after cleaning it. Maybe you could check the numbers out for yourself and see what you come up with.

Greetings

Hi Houtman, 

 It does look like 11 71205, so the suggestion by @Gunner 87 that the first two numbers may be a unit sounds good, and would certainly make sense of what we can see.

Where was the artillery position in which you found the spoon? Someone may be able to place a likely R.G.A. unit to that particular location. 

[Houtman69]

23 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Hi Houtman, 

 It does look like 11 71205, so the suggestion by @Gunner 87 that the first two numbers may be a unit sounds good, and would certainly make sense of what we can see.

Where was the artillery position in which you found the spoon? Someone may be able to place a likely R.G.A. unit to that particular location. 

Near Ploegsteert / Romarin

The location was marked on the Haig artillery map and some other maps too. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The number 1171205 as a service number does not appear in the index of Post 1921 soldiers' records compiled by the MOD.

The number 5 looks too far to the left of the rest of the number to be associated with it.
Is it really a 5, or is it just a curved dent. If it is a 5, it seems much larger than the other numbers.

[Houtman69]

3 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

The number 1171205 as a service number does not appear in the index of Post 1921 soldiers' records compiled by the MOD.

The number 5 looks too far to the left of the rest of the number to be associated with it.
Is it really a 5, or is it just a curved dent. If it is a 5, it seems much larger than the other numbers.

It's hard to tell, but I'm pretty sure it's a 5...

11  7120  5

RG A

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

If it's 11   71205, yes that could suggest something like 11th Battalion of a particular regiment, with 71205 as a service number.

But that wouldn't fit with the RGA.

Edit: 71205 RGA was a Reginald Michell.

There are 16 MICs for men with that number, and 17 entries in medal rolls (including a few duplicates). Not all llist a battalion, but where listed, none list an 11th battalion association for that number

Edited 9 February , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr