Can anyone identify this vehicle?

[Peter Scott]

Or any other information concerning this photo.

Thanks,

Peter

Edited 7 February , 2023 by Peter Scott

[Spaceman]

I think it is possible that this is an ambulance indicated by the number on the side of the engine. Also, most of the lorries that used wire spoked wheels seem to have been ambulances.

[Peter Scott]

Thanks very much for your response. I did think it was an ambulance rather than a truck on account of the wire wheels.

Peter

[Peter Scott]

It looks as if the header tank has flutes so probably a Daimler.

Peter

[Spaceman]

I think you were spot on with the Daimler ambulance:

[kenf48]

Although indistinct corporal's cap badge is more an oval RAMC shape than say the ASC

[geraint]

6 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Although indistinct corporal's cap badge is more an oval RAMC shape than say the ASC

Wouldn't ambulance drivers wear a red cross armband? Or an easily recognised medical symbol? 

[GWF1967]

It looks like an ASC badge that has been bent/curved, with glare adding to the distorted view. He has overseas chevrons on his sleeve. 

[TullochArd]

Spot on that it's an ambulance. The serial number nails it.  'A' (Ambulance) followed by 'Crowsfoot' and sequential number (allocated on deployment to theatre). 

This is the standard marking for vehicles as described in 'British Military Trucks of World War One' Gosling T.  Other prefixes were: HL: Heavy Lorry, LL: Light Lorry, M: Motorcar, S: Steam, T: wheeled Tractor, V: motor Van.

[Chasemuseum]

Certainly an ambulance from the detail above.

In British service all lorries used solid rubber tyres, not pneumatics. This policy was modified during the war when they started to purchase the truck built on a Ford model T chassis the so called Ford-TT.  

The TTs are very easily identified in photos as they look so different to other British WW1 trucks. Wheels are wood spoked.

 

 

Australian War Memorial photo of Ford TT with 500W pack set wireless transmitter. Skid mounted generator in left truck, horizontally opposed air cooled Douglas 2 3/4 hp petrol motor with generator and synchronised spark generator.  Right truck has upper and lower boxes of the 500W pack set.

[TEW]

Does anyone know what the 'B 13' might be?

Also, did they have these WD numbers from the outset?

Reason for asking is I've seen lists of numbered vehicles in diaries for Motor Ambulance Convoys.

One in particular refers to 'Car Number' to April 1916 then they switch to the WD numbers.

Car numbers in this diary tend to be A-B followed by low numbers, B 13 would fit such a number.

Incidently, the majority of ambulances in this MAC have sequential WD numbers.

TEW

[TullochArd]

30 minutes ago, TEW said:

Also, did they have these WD numbers from the outset?

I get the impression from this informed site that pre-War vehicles had "OHMS" or "ASC" and numbers which became "W (Crowsfoot) D" and numbers early in the War to be replaced with the system described in Gosling by mid War. 

WW1 British Vehicle Numbering - Landships WW1 Forum (activeboard.com)

[TEW]

If you look at this IWM photo and zoom in.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205246134

The front ambulance has 'A-18' on the canopy and on the side behind the driver's door. Additional to the WD number. There's also C-13 further back.

Looking at ambulance images these only appear to come up for motor ambulance convoys (MAC). They also match the 'Car number' in the diary I mentioned.

MACs have three sections, A, B & C.

So I think Peter's photo shows - Car 13, B section of an unknown MAC in 1918 or later.

Would be nice to ID which MAC but not likely to be an easy task.

TEW

As another incidental. Many of the vehicles within a MAC were donated from organisations, publicly funded or were privately owned with the owner being the driver.

The diary I looked at yesterday mentions an ambulance by its WD number being transferred to a division.

The owner/driver then demanded its return. It may have had a WD number but did not belong to the WD. Odd arrangement I thought.

 

[Great War Truck]

An interesting topic. Vehicles when sent for overhaul or repair would be replaced with something similar and once works had been completed would be reissued from stock to a different company.  A friend has produced an enormous list of vehicle numbers which were recorded as they were leaving workshops. Although very much a snapshot it does give some interesting information on Daimler ambulances from the same series. Daimler ambulance 24831 was sent on 04/11/17 to 30 MAC, 24596  was sent on 24/11/17 to 65 FAC, 24951 was sent on 30/06/17 to 33 FAC. Sadly, no record for A24847.

As you know the census number was issued when the trucks, cars, ambulances etc arrived in theatre. If a batch of 100 Daimler ambulances were unloaded it is likely that they would have sequential numbers. So 24847 may well have been assigned with 24831 to 30 MAC. The ASC kept a system of record cards for every vehicle then in service recording who they were issued to, every change of company, any repairs, approximated mileage undertaken. It would contain an amazing source of information, but i have never seen one of these cards so no doubt all have been destroyed.  

[Peter Scott]

More good stuff. Thanks.

Peter

[TEW]

Following on from the lead on A24831 being sent to 30 MAC 4/11/17 I've checked that diary in some detail.

30 MAC rarely mention vehicles in any detail. They don't even mention receiving an ambulance around this date or from what I've seen at any date. The only connection is via the date of 4/11/17 which is when they moved location to Boiry St. Rictrude taking over the former HQ and workshop of 3 MAC.

I've worked backwards and forwards from 4/11/17 and I haven't seen anything that suggests they were in need of more ambulances or had any damaged/destroyed. 19/11/17 they sent 26 ambulances to help out with field ambulances, these returned 23/11/17. 30/11/17 they sent 16 ambulances to help out at a CCS group.

Apart from that, their contingent in July 1918 is 50 Daimler Ambulances. There are a few references to near numbered ambulances;
13/11/18 A24866 (Sunbeam) was exchanged for Ford A53351.
26/12/18 Inquiry into damage caused to Daimler A24856.

So, there does seem to be a run of close WD numbers.

Odd that in Jan 1918 they mention A4, A5, A6 & A19 but I don't believe these are the WD numbers, I'd suggest these are the Car Numbers seen in other diaries and relate to the B13 on Peter's image.

The Long Long Trail says that each section had 3 ASC corporals and 100 Privates or Drivers so I'm not sure if this man is actually a driver. The diary does mention some corporals for gallantry awards etc. Given the overseas chevrons it must be into 1918 and Sept 1918 has M2/182082 Cpl. Uzzell C W and in December 1918 M2/180873 Cpl. A/Sgt. Cox, BK.

The above assumes there is a connection between man & machine and it's not an ASC Cpl. who had his photo taken next to a random vehicle.

31 MAC diary records A24880, A24881, A24886. A24894 & A24899 but these are all Talbots that became casualties in 1918, destroyed by shellfire or captured along with the crew.

TEW

I've gleaned a few interesting things from various diaries which I'll put into another post as it's veering away from A24847.

TEW

[TEW]

I'm not sure of the dates for the Gosling reference to M=Motorcar and A=Ambulance but I found this:

This doesn't seem to have been across the board as I then found:

The MAC diaries are varied in content but 14 MAC includes a lot of workshop details. For some reason they flit from using Car Numbers and the WD numbers but also match the two up for some months.

Daimler A17286 broke down with gearbox trouble en route to Avonmouth form Grove Park 26/9/15, it was towed to Avonmouth and then had a new rear axle fitted once in France. This vehicle is also identified as B22 and can be traced through its various repairs at the MAC workshop through to June 1918.

Daimler A17485 was sent to 14 MAC from 17th Division Field Ambulance Workshop In March 1916. Pte. E L Hoskins seems to have not liked this arrangement and wanted it back as he had purchased the vehicle and it is desired that the vehicle be given back to him to drive. Seems an unusual set of circumstances to me.

TEW