Why an infantry rank?

[J T Gray]

At the weekend I was in Betchworth in Surrey and had a browse round the war memorial there.

Amongst others of note (a submariner, a stoker from the Live Bait Squadron etc), there was a PRIVATE in the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars.

My knowledge of the Queer Objects on Horseback stretches no further than their nickname, but I would have expected them to use cavalry ranks and that said soldier (no paper to hand, so I have no note of his name, I'm afraid) would have been a Trooper or whatever the appropriate rank was.

Can anyone explain this?

Thanks,

Adrian

[Muerrisch]

Not sure about this: it may depend on the regimental usage.

For what it is worth the official total list of lowest ranks from KR and the Pay Warrant was:

trooper, gunner, driver, sapper, pioneer RE and private.

Note this was well before guardsman, rifleman, kingsman, fusilier etc etc, which crawled in over the years.

[PhilB]

In REME, you don`t become a Cfn till you`re trade qualified - you`re a private till then. Does a cavalryman become a trooper immediately on joining or does he have to qualify in some way? Phil B

[KONDOA]

Adrian,

Some Hussars outfits became cyclist battalions which may be the case with the QO. At this period ranks amy have become more generalised having lost the connection with horses.

Roop

[DrB]

From my reading, I don't think the word "trooper" came into official use until after WWI

DrB

[PhilB]

You could be right, DrB. I have medals to Pte A.Groves 12 Lancers. Since he was KIA 30/11/17, the title of private was obviously in use then. Phil B

PS The Long, long trail calls them privates on:-

http://www.1914-1918.net/whatcavreg.htm

[Robert Dunlop]

Clouting's discharge paper, issued in 1925, refers to his rank as 'Trooper'. During the war, his rank was Private though he frequently refers to himself or others as 'trooper'. From 'Tickled to Death to Go'.

Robert

[ianw]

Yes, I think previous posters are right and that "trooper" did not come into official usage until after the Great War

[squirrel]

All very confusing-

I have a set of medals for an RFA Corporal; I would have expected Bombardier but the RA say that the rank is Corporal and the appointment is Bombardier.

I also have sets of medals for a Rifleman (RB's) and two Sappers (RE's), an ASC Private and a MGC Private. An NZEF set has Private on it also.

The medal card at PRO for a Great Uncle who served in the Grenadier gives his rank as Private, not Guardsman as you might expect.

Squirrel

[Muerrisch]

I say again: trooper was official in 1914, according to KR and also the Pay Warrant. Who used it, I know not. See my previous post for FULL list of the lowest of the low at that time.

[squirrel]

Point taken but there is a South Africa and WW1 memorial in St Martin -in- the- Fields in Trafalgar Square to one of the London Yeomanry Regiments that lists ranks against names as: Farrier, Shoeing Smith, Corporal farrier, Serjeant Shoeing Smith etc.

I wonder what the difference between a Farrier and a Shoeing Smith is ?

Incidentally, my RB's man has his rank as Private on his medal card at PRO but Rifleman on his medals.

Squirrel

[J T Gray]

Very interesting, gentlemen. Thank you for the help, even if we haven't found a definitive answer it's all very interesting!

Adrian

[johnreed]

I have a Statement of Services to soldier in the 12th Lancers of the Line, who reverted from Corporal to Pte at own request on 1st November 1914.

John

[cartoss]

As I understand it a farrier was a qualified tradesman, and a shoeing smith was carried on the troop/sqn strength to carry outroutine running repairs, fitting shoes etc. All the technical stuff, such as making and corrective shoeing wasdoe by the farrier. As an aside the farrier in the Household Cav. wears a black plume oon his ceremonial helmet and carries an axe, this was for cutting off the hoof of horses kia to prove they were dead. Their regimental/army number is branded there.

Hope I got it right and have not confused.

[KONDOA]

Cartoss,

I would suggest the farrier actually fitted the shoes as that is what they are trined to do and have intimate knowledge of a horse's foot and fetlock etc.

A shoeing smith would be able to adjust shoes and refit existing shoes but would not necessarily trim hoofs and all that malarky without supervision although in practice he would have sufficient experience to do so.

Roop