D J T Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 I am researching a Daniel Holmes Townson in my family tree. He served in the East Lancashire Regiment from 1897 to 1899 when he was discharged as an invalid and unfit for military service. In 1900 he was charged and convicted of embezzlement and sentenced to three months hard labour. During the period 1914 until his death in 1915, he served in The Manchester Regiment as Ernest Jones. His CWGC headstone states his real name (Daniel Holmes Townson) served as Jones. It has been a family mystery as to why he enrolled as Jones. My question is, would his criminal conviction and previous discharge as being unfit prevent him from reenlisting in the army as Daniel Holmes Townson? If it did prevent him reenlisting, I could understand why the name change. I have searched all the sites for his military record, but it seems they are part of the 60% ‘burnt records.’ Any comments would be greatly appreciated. djt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) Hi @D J T and welcome to the forum 6 hours ago, D J T said: My question is, would his criminal conviction and previous discharge as being unfit prevent him from reenlisting in the army as Daniel Holmes Townson? Short answer is yes. Here are the relevant questions from the form used for a man who enlisted in September 1914, but they basically were the same from pre-war enlistment forms. To knowingly answer incorrectly could lead to inprisonment. Potentially other things:- If linkage to his previous military records might have thrown up a poor disciplinary record as well as his health discharge. He may also have other things to avoid - outstanding arrest warrants or court orders for maintenance. Age - if he wanted to make himself younger to maximise chance to get out to the fighting in the war that was going to be overby Christmas, particularly if he could take the identity of someone with a good military record. There are a number of Ernest Jones who died in 1915 - do you have a service number for him? Regards, Peter Edited 31 January , 2023 by PRC Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 31 January , 2023 Admin Share Posted 31 January , 2023 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/375707/d-h-townson/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, D J T said: During the period 1914 until his death in 1915, he served in The Manchester Regiment as Ernest Jones. His CWGC headstone states his real name (Daniel Holmes Townson) served as Jones. Welcome to GWF Ernest JONES / Daniel Holmes TOWNSON, 6868, Manchester Regt. His widow's pension card at WFA/Fold3 - Ada TOWNSON - indicates he died of Meningitis contracted in active service His widow's date of birth was given as 27.8.80 [Necessary as at that date of husband's death/claim widows over 35 got a 2/6 pw week enhancement to their pension - as apparently they were seen to be less likely to get remarried at the age!] - we can see she got 12/6 pw from 27.8.15 [i.e. the standard 10/- plus the extra 2/6 pw] As men commonly married same age or younger women [gross generalisation but often a good starting point] this rather looks like his birth registration at FreeBMD Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Mar 1878 (>99%) Townson Daniel Holmes Burnley 8e 290 Beyond a false name we don't know what else he offered up at attestation but his 'history' and age may well have played their roles M Edited 31 January , 2023 by Matlock1418 pension detail and interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D J T Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Ernest Jones serial number 6868 in the Manchester Regiment. His brother Ernest Jones Townson served in the West Yorkshire Regiment. He has used his brother’s First & Middle names as his alias. djt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 2 hours ago, D J T said: His CWGC headstone states his real name (Daniel Holmes Townson) served as Jones. 56 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/375707/d-h-townson/ D H TOWNSON Grave headstone photo = Find a Grave - entered at FaG as D, TOWNSON https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/32489138/d-townson Always interesting to see such inscrptions as "D. H TOWNSON served as" on a headstone - rather looks like it has been squeezed in above his 'Army name'/alias and details. From CWGC his true name and his alias were known for a long time so not an accidentally-late addition [just rather looks like it] If true name known at time of original carving then this approach seems the standard CWGC one for many men with an alias. Doesn't vary much from the standard layout but would work well for later name addition(s) too. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, D J T said: Ernest Jones serial number 6868 in the Manchester Regiment. His brother Ernest Jones Townson served in the West Yorkshire Regiment. He has used his brother’s First & Middle names as his alias. Not uncommon to do such/using family names - made it easier to remember the lie! Might JONES perhaps have been his/their mother's maiden surname?? Edit: No, I note HOLMES for Daniel. Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: TOWNSON, DANIEL HOLMES HOLMES GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 290 and also for Ernest TOWNSON, ERNEST JONES HOLMES GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 275 M Edited 31 January , 2023 by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 31 January , 2023 Admin Share Posted 31 January , 2023 According to Paul Nixon's indispensable site 6868 Manchester Regiment dates from 1901 https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/manchester-regiment-regular-special.html and was one of the additional battalions formed for the Boer War. There is a fragment on FMP that indicates that 6868 Jones was a L/Cpl in 1914 It shows he was serving with the 1st Battalion in India and was suffering from malaria. He was transferred to the UK from India on the 27th November 1914 on the H..S. Asturias As previously noted he died at home on 19 January 1915. IF correct he enlisted in the Manchester Regiment September 1901 for 7 years with the Colours - 5 on the Reserve. In the normal course of events he would be posted to the B Reserve in 1907 and discharged on termination in 1913. However, if serving in India with the 1st Battalion he may have extended his service, or in 1913 joined the D Reserve, (unlikely as men who did this were called up on the outbreak of war and posted to the 2nd Battalion and France). He seems to have settled in the Army under his alias after his release from prison and made good until struck down with the illness that apparently led to his death after he was repatriated to the UK. Journey time from India by sea about six weeks so he did not have long at home. He is shown on the Manchester Regiment 1914 Star Roll as Pte Jones disembarkation 9.11.1914 There is a note the Star was returned 23.7.24. He is also listed under that name on the BWM and Victory Medal Roll which were also returned. All quite confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 In order to make sense of some of the inconsistances I tried working through the various sources available to me – so nothing that requires a subscription to FindMyPast\ Ancestry! A Daniel Townson, single, aged 18 years & 10 months and a Weaver born Colne, Lancashire, attested in the 3rd Militia Battalion of the East Lancashire Regiment at Burnley on the 20th October 1896, signing up for six years service in the Militia of the Lancashire, to serve in the East Lancashire area. He was then living at 23 Charles Street, Colne and had done for the preceding 12 months. He was working \ last worked at Marsden. He had no previous military experience. His militia number was 7108. He was described as 5 feet 6 and three quarter inches tall, weighed 106lbs, and had a fresh complexion with grey eyes and brown hair. His distinctive mark was a scar over right hip. His faith was Wesleyan. He completed his 49 days drill on enlistment, but was discharged on May 11th 1897 on payment of £2. However on the 28th June 1897 Daniel Townson signed up again with the same Battalion. He gave his age as 19 years and 6 months, birthplace as Colne, occupation weaver and living at 23 Charles Street, Colne. His employer was now a Mr. Bannister & Co, of Green Road, Colne. (I suspect he may actually have been out of work and this was his last employer – the question asked covers both scenarios). Daniel mentions his previous service and that it had ended via Purchase. His new Militia Service Number was 7803. Daniel was now recorded as 5 feet 7 & a half inches tall, and weighed 113lbs. Complexion, eye & hair colour, and the location of the scar are all the same. His faith now however is recorded as Church of England. He had only completed 24 days drill on enlistment when he decided to join the Regular Army Battalions of the East Lancashire Regiment. His militia enlistment ended on the 21st July 1897 as a result. Daniel Townson attested for a Regular Army short service enlistment of 12 years, split 7 years in the Colours and 5 in the Reserve at Burnley on the 22nd July 1897. His previous military experience was his militia service. Aged 19 years and 7 months, he was single, and a Weaver by Trade. He asked to serve in the East Lancashire Regiment. He was recorded as 5 feet 7 & a half inches tall, and weighed 118lbs. He was recorded as of a fresh complexion, with grey eyes and brown hair. There were now scars noted on both hips. His faith was CofE. His physical development was recorded as “Good”. Next of kin was his mother Ann Townson, brother William Alma Townson and sister Mary Jane Townson, all of 23 Charles Street, Colne. He reported to the Depot at Burnley the following day, and received his new regimental service number – 5440. After completing his initial training he was posted to the 1st Battalion at Portsmouth on the 16th October 1897. He was subsequently posted to the 2nd Battalion on the 28th January 1898. On the 28th December 1898 he left the UK bound for India, being initially stationed at Bareilly before moving to Ranikhet in March 1899. A Medical Board at Ranihket on the 30th August 1899 considering him for medical discharge recorded that he had a perforation of the Membrana Tympani, although Daniel said he had suffered from a discharge from the left ear for as long as he could remember. Since arriving at Ranikhet in March 1899 he had repeatedly reported sick with ear problems – although the MO seemed to think he was shirking. He was treated mainly as an outpatient but no improvement had occurred. There was a large perforation in the left ear and a associated chronic discharge. In the doctors opinion he was too deaf to be considered an effective soldier and this would be permanent. His condition was not attributable to his service. There was no reduction in his ability to earn through civil employment. The decision was signed off by the board on the 21st September 1899. He boarded the S.S. Dilwana at Bombay on the 2nd November 1899 to be returned to the UK. He arrived at Netley Hospital in the UK on the 24th November 1899 and was released for two weeks discharge leave on the 15th December 1899. The final board sitting then did decide it would prevent him earning a full livelihood to “an major preciable extent.” He was discharged medically unfit on the 2nd January 1900, having served 2 years and 165 days. When the 1901 Census of England & Wales was taken on the 31st March 1901, the 23 year old Daniel Holmes Townson, an unmarried Cotton Weaver born Colne, was recorded living at 26 Charles Street, Colne. This was the household of his widowed mother Ann. She has 4 other children living with her, all adult, and all with an entry in the “Profession or Occupation” column. But unlike every other entry like that on the same page, the Census taker has not recorded any of them as actually working. Could be a mistale when the Census taker wrote up the schedule from his notes, or it could be that this household really was down on it’s luck. Might well explain why in the following September Daniel was desperate enough to try the Army again under an assumed name. Whichever split of his 12 year short service enlistment “Ernest Jones” went for – 7 & 5, 3 & 9 , 9 & 3 were the most common for infantryman – we know he didn’t go for the 12 years in the Colours as we can find him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, (taken 2nd April 1911), as a civilian. Daniel H. Townson, a Cotton Weaver, born Colne, was recorded as the married head of the household at 1 Green Road, Waterside, Colne. He lives there with his wife of one year, the 30 year Ada Townson, born Portland, Dorsetshire. So far the couple have had no children. Of course what isn’t recorded was that Daniel, as Ernest Jones, was also an Army Reservist, and still receiving half-pay. The marriage of a Daniel Holmes Townson to an Ada Isaac was recorded in the Portsmouth District in Q3 1909. It was not uncommon for Private soldiers to marry on completing their period in the colours, although that is speculation on my part – although that would have also avoided the need to explain his true name if he was still in the colours and wanted to claim an allowance and lodgings for her. The marriage certificate will give you his stated occupation. May be a complete co-incidence but Harts’ Annual Army for 1909 shows that the 2nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment commenced 1909 stationed at Portsmouth. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100684518 There doesn’t appear to be a birth of any children of this marriage recorded in England & Wales – which ties in with Adas’ details on the pension card. So even without children it looks like the half-pay from being an Army Reservist was a useful supplement to the household income. When his 12 years were up, to echo @kenf48 , if his conduct record was reasonably good, he could apply to extend his period in the reserves by another four years, and so continue to receive that income. In this scenario, it’s likely that if it hadn’t come out before it’s probable that his real name came out as part of his trying to claim a Separation allowance for his wife when he was mobilised at the outbreak of the war. The Medal Index Card for him shows a Date of entry in a Theatre of War of the 9th November 1914, but with the Theatre itself left blank. That would normally mean that the Theatre was France, which is reflected by the award of the 1914 Star. Men serving in other Theatres of War even during 1914 qualified for a different medal – the 1914/15 Star, and so the code for the relevant Theatre is shown. Those on overseas garrison duty only didn't qualify for either medal, and so no date of entry would be recorded. But that of course causes a problem – how did he end up in India, suffering with Malaria and needing to be repatriated in November 1914? As a recalled reservist he wouldn’t have been sent out there in August 1914, and the Battalion that was there, the 1st, left India for France at the end August 1914. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/manchester-regiment/ Even more puzzling why was he aboard the Hospital Ship Asturias in order to make that journey home. However, just before the First World War the Admiralty decided to use Asturias as a hospital ship instead. Asturias was painted in the hospital ship livery of a white hull with a broad green band punctuated by large red crosses. On 5 August 1914, one day after the UK entered the war, Asturias left Southampton for the Royal Navy anchorage at Scapa Flow. She was soon sent to Le Havre in northern France, where she embarked wounded troops from the British Expeditionary Force. Asturias' duties took her mostly to French and Mediterranean ports, from Saint-Nazaire on the Bay of Biscay to the Gallipoli Campaign in Turkey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Asturias We also have him being returned from India with Malaria, but was dead just a few weeks later with Meningitis. The various bits just don’t seem to tie up – has that bit on FMP been correctly transcribed would seem to be the first thing to put to bed. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 9 hours ago, D J T said: In 1900 he was charged and convicted of embezzlement and sentenced to three months hard labour. With my limited resources - I am wondering the source of this ??? 7 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: Ernest JONES / Daniel Holmes TOWNSON, 6868, Manchester Regt. His widow's pension card at WFA/Fold3 - Ada TOWNSON - indicates he died of Meningitis contracted in active service 40 minutes ago, PRC said: A Medical Board at Ranihket on the 30th August 1899 considering him for medical discharge recorded that he had a perforation of the Membrana Tympani, although Daniel said he had suffered from a discharge from the left ear for as long as he could remember. Since arriving at Ranikhet in March 1899 he had repeatedly reported sick with ear problems – although the MO seemed to think he was shirking. He was treated mainly as an outpatient but no improvement had occurred. There was a large perforation in the left ear and a associated chronic discharge. In the doctors opinion he was too deaf to be considered an effective soldier and this would be permanent. His condition was not attributable to his service. There was no reduction in his ability to earn through civil employment. The decision was signed off by the board on the 21st September 1899. He boarded the S.S. Dilwana at Bombay on the 2nd November 1899 to be returned to the UK. He arrived at Netley Hospital in the UK on the 24th November 1899 and was released for two weeks discharge leave on the 15th December 1899. The final board sitting then did decide it would prevent him earning a full livelihood to “an major preciable extent.” His Death Certificate would definitively confirm his cause of death - @djt you may have, or be interested to acquire, from GRO [£7 for a quick PDF copy} As a non-medic it's interesting to note that apparently ear infections can lead to meningitis = so perhaps ??? Though I also believe malaria can similarly be implicated in meningitis cases = ??? Perhaps one for @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr ??? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 51 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: apparently ear infections can lead to meningitis They can indeed. In pre-antibiotic days certainly, but even today, bad ear infections can spread to the mastoid bone, a spongy bone that siurrounds the middle and inner ear. Abscesses formed here and commonly spread to the brain, causing meningitis, abscesses & death. 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: malaria can similarly be implicated in meningitis cases Apparently so. Cerebral malaria isn't specifically a meningitis, but an infection of the brain tissues themselves, causing swelling (encephalopathy). But it does seem to be the case that having malaria (and not particularly the cerebral form), can rarely predispose to, and mask the symptoms of bacterial, viral or any other type of meningitis. As you say, you'd need to see what the DC says, to find out what was going on with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: They can indeed. In pre-antibiotic days certainly, but even today, bad ear infections can spread to the mastoid bone, a spongy bone that siurrounds the middle and inner ear. Abscesses formed here and commonly spread to the brain, causing meningitis, abscesses & death. 6 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Apparently so. Cerebral malaria isn't specifically a meningitis, but an infection of the brain tissues themselves, causing swelling (encephalopathy). But it does seem to be the case that having malaria (and not particularly the cerebral form), can rarely predispose to, and mask the symptoms of bacterial, viral or any other type of meningitis. As you say, you'd need to see what the DC says, to find out what was going on with him. Thanks for your reply - almost too much infomation - just kidding really - sounds very unpleasant either way. RIP The DC would help. M Edited 31 January , 2023 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 31 January , 2023 Admin Share Posted 31 January , 2023 2 hours ago, PRC said: has that bit on FMP been correctly transcribed would seem to be the first thing to put to bed. This is the fragment on FMP I neglected to see he was evacuated from 12 General Hospital which was in France - mea culpa. I put malaria and India together and made 5. There is no heading to the sheet but two other documents in the series show casualties in the BEF In all probability he was a Section D reservist, he would have retained the same number allocated in 1901 i.e. 1908 B Reserve 5 years 1913 then to D Reserve mobilised on outbreak of war. 6869 Coffey followed that route and was posted to the 2nd Bn on 27.10.14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 43 minutes ago, kenf48 said: This is the fragment on FMP I neglected to see he was evacuated from 12 General Hospital which was in France Thanks for checking Ken - either I was going mad, (a distinct possibility), or it seemed that it was going to be very hard to explain. But take India out of the Great War part of the picture and it starts to look relatively simple. I would say his need to use an alias goes back to September 1901 and is driven by pure economic necessity. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D J T Posted 1 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Thank you one and all for the information, it’s just what I needed. It is gratefully appreciated. Thank you once again. Regards David J Townson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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