Headstone Error? - Pte Charles Samuel CORY 51010 16th Manchesters

[DaveMurphy]

G'day team, 

Have come across what I think is an error with CWGC records and therefore the headstone.

51010 Private Charles Samuel CORY is listed in CWGC records as Service No. 510100. 

I have databased pretty much the entire 16th Bn, and SN 510100 lies well outside the normal ranges/groups of numbers. The BWM and MIC both state 51010, which although there is no service record that I can find, his surname fits alphabetically with the numbers either side. He is also listed in the Bn Diary as being wounded on 31/7/1917 as C/51010 PTE CORY; wounds from which he died the following day. 

MIC:https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000372-00777?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=f430b5c4eacd624ad22c3fe22905a286&pId=4430114

BWM/VM: =en-AU&lang[]=en-AU]https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_611411_5840-00172?treeid=&lang[]=en-AU&lang[]=en-AU

CWGC: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/434863/c-s-cory/ The supporting docs on his CWGC listing also have the incorrect number. 

I have had a few minor errors corrected in the CWGC database, but for those more experienced, what further evidence would there need to be to have it corrected? I assume that the physical headstone has the incorrect service number, and would need to be fixed. I'd be interested to see a photo of it.

Cheers, 

Dave

[Cheshire22]

If you look at a site called Find a grave, they a photo of the headstone 

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, DaveMurphy said:

G'day team, 

Have come across what I think is an error with CWGC records and therefore the headstone.

51010 Private Charles Samuel CORY is listed in CWGC records as Service No. 510100. 

I have databased pretty much the entire 16th Bn, and SN 510100 lies well outside the normal ranges/groups of numbers. The BWM and MIC both state 51010, which although there is no service record that I can find, his surname fits alphabetically with the numbers either side. He is also listed in the Bn Diary as being wounded on 31/7/1917 as C/51010 PTE CORY; wounds from which he died the following day. 

MIC:https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000372-00777?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=f430b5c4eacd624ad22c3fe22905a286&pId=4430114

BWM/VM: =en-AU&lang[]=en-AU]https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_611411_5840-00172?treeid=&lang[]=en-AU&lang[]=en-AU

CWGC: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/434863/c-s-cory/ The supporting docs on his CWGC listing also have the incorrect number. 

I have had a few minor errors corrected in the CWGC database, but for those more experienced, what further evidence would there need to be to have it corrected? I assume that the physical headstone has the incorrect service number, and would need to be fixed. I'd be interested to see a photo of it.

Cheers, 

Dave

Hi Dave. There is a group called the War Graves Photographic Project. They will send you a high quality photograph of a headstone for 4.00 pounds. I have used them a number of times and the response is prompt and image extremely clear.. This is the link to your guy https://www.twgpp.org/photograph/view/4179745

regards Gunner. 

[DaveMurphy]

Thanks Cheshire,

So also potentially incorrect on the headstone. 

Cheers, 

Dave

1 minute ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hi Dave. There is a group called the War Graves Photographic Project. They will send you a high quality photograph of a headstone for 4.00 pounds. I have used them a number of times and the response is prompt and image extremely clear.. This is the link to your guy https://www.twgpp.org/photograph/view/4179745

regards Gunner. 

Cheers Gunner. Looks like I have what I need, showing the number mismatch.

[DaveMurphy]

To confirm, I would be keen to understand better the numbering system for Service Numbers which would confirm this as an outlier.

In comparison with the rest of the Battalion it is clearly well outside the realm but want to explore just to be sure there is no contrary evidence. Any tips? 

Cheers, 

Dave

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

What does Soldiers Died in the Great War show? Also, ate there any pension records?

[DaveMurphy]

3 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

What does Soldiers Died in the Great War show? Also, ate there any pension records?

I don't have access to Fold 3, but the links through Ancestry for both say 51010 ie. not what is on the headstone. 

[tootrock]

He is 51010 on the WFA Pension Cards.

Martin

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

51010 on Soldiers Effects also.

The overwhelming evidence is that CWGC are wrong.

Edited 29 January , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[DaveMurphy]

All submitted for correction to CWGC. Thanks for the support team!

 

Will see how long it takes....

[Matlock1418]

Can't have taken/didn't take too long.

As at 5 February: Listed at CWGC as 51010 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/434863/c-s-cory 

M

[DaveMurphy]

Yes very quick turnaround, as with two other other database errors (headstones we’re correct).

Response stated that the headstone will be replaced with the correct number when it’s next due for refurbishment. That could take a while!

[Matlock1418]

27 minutes ago, DaveMurphy said:

Yes very quick turnaround, as with two other other database errors (headstones we’re correct).

Response stated that the headstone will be replaced with the correct number when it’s next due for refurbishment. That could take a while!

Database = cheap

Headstones = not so cheap

I do however wonder if they really will be waiting for it to be replaced due to/after weathering badly. 

It looks a pretty new headstone after all.

CWGC now also do small corrections using a small area removal then made up with a filler that is either re-incised or left blank = possibly the latter might be suitable in this case since only the last digit need be removed ??

Just an example - a date correction using that small repair technique ['SMART' Small, Medium Area Repair Technology - a term familiar in the motor trade!] - this one's colour can be considered a bit adrift, but I have seen better others.

Should be easy enough to simply remove a digit 0.

Whether CWGC do it and/or any time soon remains uncertain.

M

Edited 5 February , 2023 by Matlock1418
correction