domwalsh Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 (edited) Good afternoon all. I'm trying to research a Zeebrugge marine who served WW1 and WW2.and can't seem to find any biographical info apart from ADM159. CH.18319 James Watson RMLI was born in 1896 and served till 1935 then rejoined in 1939 -1945. He is noted as born in Southwark then appears to have lived with his brother Lewis in Blackheath, Shooters Hill and Peckham. Can anyone help on the genealogical side of things. Like when he died for starters. Thanks Dom Edited 22 January , 2023 by domwalsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aim Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 1) He was born in Southwark, but in 1896 this was in the registration districts of Camberwell, Lambeth and St. Saviour, Southwark, according to the FreeBMD site. 2) In the 1901 census he was with his family in 1 Thomson Mews, Camberwell, but the Findmypast site says he was born in 1895. 3) In the 1911 census he was with his family in 6 Nursery Row, St. Mary Newington, Southwark, but Findmypast still says born in 1895. Always remember indexing may not be accurate! That's my lot, so far. aim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 22 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2023 8 minutes ago, aim said: 1) He was born in Southwark, but in 1896 this was in the registration districts of Camberwell, Lambeth and St. Saviour, Southwark, according to the FreeBMD site. 2) In the 1901 census he was with his family in 1 Thomson Mews, Camberwell, but the Findmypast site says he was born in 1895. 3) In the 1911 census he was with his family in 6 Nursery Row, St. Mary Newington, Southwark, but Findmypast still says born in 1895. Always remember indexing may not be accurate! That's my lot, so far. aim Thanks aim. That's helpful. Having looked at more than 700 marine records of service in recent years, I found altered birth dates to be very common. Cheers Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 The 1921 Census shows that he was based at Sheerness on HMS Cyclops, a repair and depot ship. He is described as being Widowed and aged 26 years and 4 months old. (images courtesy of Find My Past) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 22 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Thanks so much Allan. Feels like we're building a picture.if anybody can track down a date of death, I'd be very grateful. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Dom, Did your James happen to have a middle name? ’Twould make the search of FreeBmd a lot easier! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 None that I have seen, I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 (edited) One of the frustrating things in genealogy is getting all the facts to tie. He you have a service record saying that he was born 27 Feb 1896 and a father Oswald (which has been crossed out). But he does have a brother Lewis There is a birth on the exact date in London, 27 Feb 1896. But the father is George The 1901 census referenced in this thread has a father Osbourne (not Oswald) and he was born 3 Mar 1895 It is difficult to say with certainty which soldier is the right one Edited 23 January , 2023 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 You're spot on, Corisande. It's a tricky one to pin down. Does James having a brother called Lewis help? Thanks for your help. Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 4 minutes ago, domwalsh said: Does James having a brother called Lewis help? I don't know, as George & Elizabeth are in 1901 census but their son James is not with the family. And George died 1909, so that family scattered after that. So I cannot say whether they had a Lewis or not The other problem is that it is difficult to double guess when a soldier is telling the truth and when he lies to be expedient The marriage and death of his wife might help, as that would name his father. But any "James Watson" is not an easy man to pin down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 He is indeed a tricky man to pin down ...... Thanks for trying Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 (edited) Better news I think I have found the marriage and subsequent death James Watson married Clara M E Quarrel (or Quarrell) in Southwark in 1917 Clara M E Watson died in Southwark in 1918 aged 25 If it was a church wedding I may find it, otherwise you need to buy MC to get father [added] She appears to be Clara Mary Ellen Quarrell , and I cannot find a church wedding, so to get the name of his father when he married , you would have to buy marriage cert Edited 23 January , 2023 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 (edited) @domwalshA bit of a long shot but RMLI Attestation Packs can contain all sorts of papers, forms and assorted correspondence, which may shed some light on the problem. Some of these packs are in ADM 157 at Kew but many thousands of packs are in the archive of the Fleet Air Arm Museum. Chatham/18319 Watson is definitely one of 16,000+ Chatham packs that FAAM hold. FAAM used to provide a copying service - not sure if they still do. Might be worth asking. WW2 papers are frequently present in the packs and other documents (e.g. Company Conduct Sheets)may add some colour to your reasearch into Watson. Edited 23 January , 2023 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 The conventional way of establishing whether a man is alive in 1939 is to find him in 1939 Register I can find no plain James Watson, born Feb or Mar 1895 or 1896 that could be him Does not mean he was dead, as he could have been in the forces by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 14 minutes ago, corisande said: Does not mean he was dead, as he could have been in the forces by then He served as an RM Pensioner Aug 11939 to Sep 1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 If it is any help: Osborne Watson married Ellen Reynolds in March Q 1885 St Saviours Lewis Watson birth registered June Q 1891 Lambeth James Watson birth registered June Q 1895 St Saviours Osborne married a second time Dec Q 1907 Transcript of 1911 census (10 children from first marriage and 3 from the second) Household members (10 people) First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Osborne Watson Head Married Male 44 1867 Printer Kennington Frances Watson Wife Married Female 29 1882 - Croydon Fredrick Watson Son Single Male 21 1890 Printer Kennington Lewis Watson Son Single Male 19 1892 Printer Kennington William Watson Son Single Male 19 1892 Truck lad Walworth James Watson Son Single Male 16 1895 Messenger boy Walworth Sidney Richards Stepson - Male 5 1906 - Kennington Violet Watson Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Southwark Herbert Watson Son - Male 2 1909 - Southwark Francis Watson Son - Male 0 1911 - Walworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Thanks MelPack. I think the Osborrne/Lewis connection gets us to the right James Watson. Thanks also to Corisande and Horatio. Plus to aim and Allan1892. As I always say, it's a team game and your help is much appreciated. I think the main thing I'm missing is James's dare of death Cheers all. Dom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 5 minutes ago, domwalsh said: James's date of death Afraid the only way you can do that is by establishing exactly who he is, otherwise you cannot eliminate any of the hundreds of James Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Just as an aside - I suspect that the 1907 marriage is not that of the father but that of the eldest namesake son, Osbourne Leopold Watkins, who deserted the navy to marry Elizabeth Smith. There is no second marriage of the father and no readily compatible death record for Ellen Watkins before the 1911 census. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 49 minutes ago, MelPack said: Osbourne Leopold Watkins ?? = Osborne Leopold WATSON who deserted RN twice - in 1908 and again in 1909 ?? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6775157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domwalsh Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Thanks Horatio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now