Discontinuation of wearing WW1 medal ribbons - what date - and loss of proficiency badge.

[kildaremark]

I am trying to date an artillery unit photograph from the 1920-22 period. None of the group are wearing Medal Ribbons, or indeed wound stripes.

Would anyone have the reference to the Army Order for the discontinuation of wearing wound stripes i.e. from what date.

 

On a slightly separate subject, I have a gunner in the photograph who had a gun layer badge during the war.  On promotion to a higher rank is the proficiency badge  removed from the uniform?

 

Thanks

Mark

Edited 19 January , 2023 by kildaremark

[Cheshire22]

2 hours ago, kildaremark said:

I am trying to date an artillery unit photograph from the 1920-22 period. None of the group are wearing Medal Ribbons, or indeed wound stripes.

Would anyone have the reference to the Army Order for the discontinuation of wearing wound stripes i.e. from what date.

 

On a slightly separate subject, I have a gunner in the photograph who had a gun layer badge during the war.  On promotion to a higher rank is the proficiency badge  removed from the uniform?

 

Thanks

Mark

If post a picture, people could have a look as the age of the people in the photo will help as well

[kildaremark]

Thanks. - I will only post a portion as it is not in my ownership but I know from the unit and those involved that it is 1920-22.  The Sergeant has a crown so it is post August 1920 (?) but it is the lack of medal ribbons that has thrown me. All the NCOs are carrying helmets as they are in Ireland but no one has medal ribbons.  This unit had a medal parade in March 1921 (26th Battery RGA) where the NCOs were issued with their war medals.  So, therefore, is this photo pre March 1921 or dated to 1922 when, at some point, medal ribbons were no longer worn. Note that the trees have no leaves suggesting WInter, or is it the case that ribbons were not known on "active duty" uniforms?

Thanks

Mark

 

[TEW]

Not impossible I suppose but issuing campaign medals at a parade would be a very unusual and administratively difficult practise.

Is it possible to give a name and number for any of the men?

TEW

[kildaremark]

Courtesy of the Ogilby Muster archive - 26th Battery RGA - two medal parades, one in March and one in May 1921. The vast majority of the men were 19/20 years of age according to the 1921 census which Is why, I believe, only the NCO appeared to receive medals.

 

 

A few of the NCOs in the unit are

1405478 Sergeant J Warren

1402743 Sergt Cobham C.B.

1400242 BSM Tabler, PA

L/Sgt George Helsen not mentioned in the medal parade. was 5399, renumbered 1400464 in 1920.

I haven't had the need, to date, to research them against the artillery attestations on FMP to get their WW1 regimental numbers.

The sergeant in the photo above will be one of the following:

Frank	Cocking	age 32	Plymptom, Devon
Thomas George	Hanson	age 33	Reading, Berks
James Edward	Warren	age 30	Portsmouth

 

 

 

 

Mark

Edited 19 January , 2023 by kildaremark

[TEW]

For Percy Arnold Taber (Regt. Number = 3) his 14-15 Star roll was compiled 10/9/19 so he could wear ribbons after that date. The medal was sent out to him in the post with an issue voucher dated 15/6/20 so he had the medal for 10 months before the parade. They may well have handed them over so they could be 'presented' again at a parade.

His BWM/Victory roll was compiled 8/3/1920 so could wear ribbons after that date. There are four issue voucher dates for the actual medals being posted to him. I can't readily match the IV's to each entry but it looks like the BWM & Victory were not sent together in some cases on this page.

The IV dates are;
30/12/1920.
1/3/1921 BWM only
18/3/1921 Victory Only
3/8/1921 Pair.

So he had the medals at least 2 months earlier, maybe five.

TEW

Edited 19 January , 2023 by TEW
spelling

[kildaremark]

Thanks TEW

I guess the only thing that I can be certain of  is that it is post May 1920 when the rank markings of the RGA changed and with the leaves gone  from the trees it's either from winter 1920/21 or Winter 1921/22.

 

Thanks

 

Mark

[Andrew Upton]

7 hours ago, kildaremark said:

...Would anyone have the reference to the Army Order for the discontinuation of wearing wound stripes i.e. from what date....

Wear discontinued under Army Order 434, November 1922.

[kildaremark]

Thanks Andrew

[dsowerby]

"So, therefore, is this photo pre March 1921 or dated to 1922 when, at some point, medal ribbons were no longer worn. Note that the trees have no leaves suggesting WInter, or is it the case that ribbons were not known on "active duty" uniforms?"

I thought medal ribbons were worn in service dress like this throughout this period? I have photos from the 20s and 30s where all men had them up (if they had them); you see them in Battledress in WW2 too.

 

David

[kildaremark]

Thanks David

It suggests Winter 1920-21 and a slim chance of Winter 1919-20 considering the possibility that medal ribbons were worn before the medals were issued in 1921.

 

Mark

[dsowerby]

It's a great photo whatever timeframe, that's for sure. 

I've seen photos of men of the Essex RFA sporting their 1914-15 star ribbons as early as 1919.

 

David

[dsowerby]

This photo was taken just post War - WO1 William Ainsworth Bodger of the 1st Essex Battery. He has the ribbons of the QSA, 14-15 Star and Volunteer Force Long Service Medal.

[kildaremark]

This photo is now in the public domain on the IWM website and the closer version shows that they have medal ribbons!

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205225019

Mark