Ambulance design

[Richard Ayling]

Hello all

I am wondering if anyone can shed light on the internal design of the horse drawn ambulance carts similar to the one pictured. I am interested to know how many stretchered victims would have been carried in each cart and  if a medical orderly would have travelled inside to care for the victims on the journey or sat up front with the driver. I imagine there were many different designs, perhaps some big ones carrying more than others or was there a standard design in the British army. 

It would be interesting to know also when motorised ambulances became the norm for evacuation to hospitals or did the horse drawn version persist throughout the war.

Looking forward to see what you all know.

Thanks Rich

 

 

[Michelle Young]

Have you tried here?
 

https://museumofmilitarymedicine.org.uk/collections/

[kenf48]

According to the OH "Medical Services General History" Volume 1

http://archive.org/details/medicalservicesg01macpuoft/page/n3/mode/2up?view=theater

Following the Boer War a major reorganisation of medical facilities took place. This led to the formation of the unit designated the Field Ambulance. In 1914 the ambulance transport of infantry Division field ambulances and cavalry field ambulances consisted of ten ambulance wagons.  In the former units all the wagons were of one type for four lying down cases, the stretchers were loaded from the rear and stacked one above the other with a narrow walkway betwee; or twelve sitting. The cavalry deployed four light ambulance wagons for two lying or six sitting, and six were of the type of heavy wagon deployed by the infantry.

I'd suggest the photograph depicts a heavy wagon.

The history describes how the system was intended to operate with the bearers of the field ambulances collecting the wounded and the clearing hospitals and ambulance trains receiving the wounded. The creation of an Ambulance Convoy was proposed but rejected by the Army Council in that it would involve too many units and become unwieldy. By 1907 the General Staff was expressing concern over these transport arrangements from the Field Ambulances to the clearing hospitals (as they were then called).  Finally in 1908 it was suggested the ASC should be responsible for 'a sick and wounded convoy' with 20 wagons.  This was an attachment to the RAMC. The Army estimates in 1909-1910 allowed for the provision of motor ambulances, but the OH describes this provision as 'meagre'. (pp 9-14)

These preparatory arrangements did not even survive the first month of the war.

In the chapter on mobilisation (of medical services) the OH states "The scheme (for transportation of wounded) broke down from the commencement of operations."

On the 20 August the Director of Medical Services dmande 60 motor ambulances to be deployed to the BEF. Seven were sent between the 22nd and 24th August but with the support of ther Wolseley company numbers soon increased and by the end of the year 324 had been sent to France and organised into Motor Ambulance Convoys. By the end of 1914 there were 5 convoys and by 1918 48 Motor Ambulance Convoys had been mobilised for transporting the wounded. (pp52 et seq)

The Field Ambulances eventually received some motor ambulances and it was decided the complement should be three wagons and seven motor ambulance cars. Whilst the latter was readily achieved the number of casualties meant the original complement of wagons remained for most of the war.

See also LLT http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/field-ambulances-in-the-first-world-war/

 

 

 

 

[grantmal]

As for the comfort of the horse-drawn ambulance, an RE despatch rider wounded in November 1914 at Ypres gave his opinion:

'...After dark, the old horse wagons come up and carry the wounded back to the field ambulance, situated two or three miles to the rear. Incidentally, those antiquated horse wagons are the wickedest anachronism all our British war gear—slow, cumbersome, springless, creaking, jolting, with no accommodation in comparison with their size and unwieldiness, they wallow and bump along, in everlasting monument to the inhumanity of their designer.'

Edited 13 January , 2023 by grantmal

[Richard Ayling]

Thank you all for your helpful contributions.

[kenf48]

9 hours ago, grantmal said:

.After dark, the old horse wagons come up and carry the wounded back to the field ambulance, situated two or three miles to the rear. Incidentally, those antiquated horse wagons are the wickedest anachronism all our British war gear—slow, cumbersome, springless, creaking, jolting, with no accommodation in comparison with their size and unwieldiness, they wallow and bump along, in everlasting monument to the inhumanity of their designer.'

Don't hold back...made me smile

Not really surprising as it seems they were just converted GS Wagons

some nice pics on this thread from GMIC I think your man just about summed it up with 'springless etc" I can see no suspension of any sort.

[healdav]

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Don't hold back...made me smile

Not really surprising as it seems they were just converted GS Wagons

some nice pics on this thread from GMIC I think your man just about summed it up with 'springless etc" I can see no suspension of any sort.

I think I'm right in saying that even today no vehicle has ever been designed from scratch as an ambulance. They are all conversions from sort of van/lorry design.

[CorporalPunishment]

On 13/01/2023 at 14:44, healdav said:

I think I'm right in saying that even today no vehicle has ever been designed from scratch as an ambulance. They are all conversions from sort of van/lorry design.

The Daimler DC27 ambulance was designed from scratch as an ambulance.      Pete.

[healdav]

7 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

The Daimler DC27 ambulance was designed from scratch as an ambulance.      Pete.

Ok, I stand corrected, but it was a Chief Officer in the Ambulance Service who told me that many years ago.

In fact, he said there was one British ambulance where crews had orders not to go fast around corners as at least one wheel would fall of (and that was on the entire fleet, not one vehicle).

[Buffnut453]

Many thanks for the insights.  Obviously, considerable planning went into the employment of such ambulances during major offensives.  However, what about casualties resulting from the daily grind of trench warfare?  Would such ambulances, or their motorised equivalents, have been placed at the Casualty Clearing Stations to expedite transport of the wounded to the Field Ambulances?  

One of my relatives made such a journey from La Basse Ville to Pont d'Achelles in September 1917 after being wounded during a German raid against his trenches.  Sadly, he died at the Field Ambulance.  I'm now wondering if he was carried in one of the horse-drawn contraptions or if he was lucky to get a motorised ambulance.  

[kenf48]

2 minutes ago, Buffnut453 said:

Would such ambulances, or their motorised equivalents, have been placed at the Casualty Clearing Stations to expedite transport of the wounded to the Field Ambulances?  

The casualty evacuation chain worked the other way round i.e. Field Ambulance to CCS, but yes the main purpose of the vehicles at the Field Ambulance was to tranfer sick and wounded to the CCS.

See LLT http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/field-ambulances-in-the-first-world-war/

 

 

[Buffnut453]

8 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The casualty evacuation chain worked the other way round i.e. Field Ambulance to CCS, but yes the main purpose of the vehicles at the Field Ambulance was to tranfer sick and wounded to the CCS.

See LLT http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/field-ambulances-in-the-first-world-war/

 

 

Many thanks kenf48.  Your comments had me going back over the notes I made for the 26th Field Ambulance, which was the unit involved in the evacuation of my relative.  True enough, the Main Dressing Station was located at Pont d'Achelles with Regimental Aid Posts and Advanced Dressing Stations feeding the wounded via a number of routes and methods including stretcher bearers, wheeled stretcher bearers, tramways, wagons and vehicles.

Is there a gazetteer of British location names anywhere?  The routes identify places that would have been well-known to the Tommies at the time (e.g. CANTHAC DUMP, UNDERHILL FARM, BREWERY ADS) but I have no clue about their actual locations.  

[kenf48]

10 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

Is there a gazetteer of British location names anywhere?  The routes identify places that would have been well-known to the Tommies at the time (e.g. CANTHAC DUMP, UNDERHILL FARM, BREWERY ADS) but I have no clue about their actual locations.  

You may do better to ask on  separate topic I use McMasters Index  but it's a bit hit and miss but if you go to a map in the vicinity it is often possible to find named places. The source is mentioned.

https://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/index-wwi-trench-maps-and-aerial-photographs

The Divisional ADMS diary often has operation orders with detailed map references. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C14017237 though not here

It does, for example show that on the 1st September 1917 he visited the aid posts named by you and another at Charing Cross.  The latter is in the index and a link to this map http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A67458/-/collection

and a quick visual search I found Underhill Farm no doubt with a bit of time you will find the other locations

Apologies to Richard for going off topic.

(other mapping sites are available)

 

[Buffnut453]

On 17/01/2023 at 02:07, kenf48 said:

You may do better to ask on  separate topic I use McMasters Index  but it's a bit hit and miss but if you go to a map in the vicinity it is often possible to find named places. The source is mentioned.

https://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/index-wwi-trench-maps-and-aerial-photographs

The Divisional ADMS diary often has operation orders with detailed map references. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C14017237 though not here

It does, for example show that on the 1st September 1917 he visited the aid posts named by you and another at Charing Cross.  The latter is in the index and a link to this map http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A67458/-/collection

and a quick visual search I found Underhill Farm no doubt with a bit of time you will find the other locations

Apologies to Richard for going off topic.

(other mapping sites are available)

 

Many thanks for the pointers.  I'll have a furtle around and see what I can discover.

Apologies for the intermission...this thread will now be returned to its regularly-scheduled programming.