kerry Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 Dear All, after a gap of many years I'm trying to pick up the traces of my efforts to locate trenches 39-41 and the disastrous raid by 2 Bn KOYLI on 6/7 May 1915 southwards in the Zwarteleen salient. I've found old posts and responses but, unless I'm blind as a bat (am rapidly getting to that stage), no posts on exactly where these trenches were. I did complete my 'War Walk in May 2015 tracing Pte Lamb's first and last journey ( he deployed on 22 April 1915 from Hull and was listed as MIA on 7 May) but I think I ended up in the wrong place, or not far enough ENE from the main Zwaerteleen road running past Hill 60 to be in the right spot. So I'd be most grateful for any assists. I did try the online trench map system but there were no trenches marked around that area in the 1917 series. Thanks in advance, Kerry p.s. my book on this, 'No Going Back' (working title) should be out in the autumn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbem Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 Have you looked at McMaster? Index for WWI Maps & Air Photos (mcmaster.ca) search gives rench Name Nearest Place Map Sheet Number Map Squares Alan Crater [Br, Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 05.60 Corner House [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 35 b 9.9 Hill 60 [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 c Snout, The [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d Trench 43 [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 1.4 Trench 44 [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 3.3 Trench 45 [Zwarteleen Salient] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d Trench 46S [5/15, Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d Trench 46 [Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 5.4 Trench 47 [N of Zwarteleen salient] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 8.5 Trench 47S [5/15, joined to 47, Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 8.5 Trench 48 N of Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 d 9.6 Trench 49 [N of Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 30 c 3.8 Trench 49S [6/15, N of Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 30 c Trench 50 [NE of Zwarteleen] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 30 c 6.9 Trench 50S [6/15, N of Zwarteleen?] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 30 c Trench 51 [6/15, N of Zwarteleen?] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 30 c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 4 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2023 Hi Jonbem, no, not tried, will do so now, mny thanks, I'll try now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbem Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 a seach with just "39" gives Trench Name Nearest Place Map Sheet Number Map Squares Sap 39 [British, Cuinchy Sector, June 1916] La Bass�e 36cNW1 A 15 d, 16 c Trench 39 [Carnoy] Maricourt 62cNW1 A 7/8/9 Trench 39 CT [4/15, Hill 60] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 c Trench 39 [Hill 60] Zillebeke 28NW4 & NE3 I 29 c 70.35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 4 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2023 Brilliant - a great resource for the German lies from 1915-16 but sadly no British trenches marked on these maps for obvious reasons. But for some reason I can't detect much of a salient into the German lines ENE of Hill 60.. Will keep looking. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 From the 1915 WD of 5 Div HQ General Staff. Courtesy TNA WO 95/1512. Ancestry Piece 1512 p 389 and the cropped close up from p 789. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 And in the WD of 2 Bn West Riding, also 13 Infantry Brigade 5 Div are some sketches. This one shows the position and Hill 60 with Trench 41 set back. Courtesy TNA WO 95/1552. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 4 January , 2023 Share Posted 4 January , 2023 2 hours ago, kerry said: So I'd be most grateful for any assists. I did try the online trench map system but there were no trenches marked around that area in the 1917 series. Have a look at TrenchMapper. When centered on 28.I.29.c.88.04, there is currently a list of 376 maps of various scales, many show trenches. There are also stragetic maps, the official hisotory series and a few aerial photos, also some French and German maps. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 5 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2023 Many thanks Howard, will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 5 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2023 Brian and Howard huge thanks for digging theseout - they will be helpful when I compare and contrast them with the modern map. I did retrieve the 2 Bn KOYLI war diaries that describe the attack in the Zwarteleen Sakient involving trenches 38, 39, 40 and another one, but it is handwritten and hard to read. There is also a sketch map done in the diary but it has no scale or distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 5 January , 2023 Share Posted 5 January , 2023 It might help if it were a higher contrast. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 6 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2023 Thanks Howard it does indeed make a difference. I've downloaded your version and will type it out for ease of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 6 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2023 Given the small size of this salient I'm astonished that there were so many casualties and cases of men surviving on puddle water for days afterwards, unable to get back to their own lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 6 January , 2023 Admin Share Posted 6 January , 2023 Just for info the earlier thread is here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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