Who were the SWR?

[Stereoview Paul]

Just found that we have a readable shoulder title on one of the unknown location photos, If we can confirm the regiment we should be able to identify the country - photo is a training exercise probably just pre war and I expect the location to be South Africa.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Stereoview Paul said:

Just found that we have a readable shoulder title on one of the unknown location photos, If we can confirm the regiment we should be able to identify the country - photo is a training exercise probably just pre war and I expect the location to be South Africa.

South Wales Borderers (SWB).  The location might be China pre-WW1 (connected with Qingdao if I recall correctly) where the 2nd Battalion were stationed in 1914.

NB. “The 2nd Battalion The South Wales Borderers, along with a detachment of the 36th Sikhs, formed the bulk of the British troops which were sent to assist the Japanese in capturing Germany's naval base at Qingdao (Tsingtao) in China. Both units were then garrisoning at Tianjin (Tientsin).”

See also:

1.https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/13782539.long-view-the-gwent-soldiers-who-fought-alongside-the-japanese/

2.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/47026-south-wales-borderers-in-china/

3.http://www.chinarhyming.com/2015/02/02/siege-of-tsingtao-british-dead/

Photos from National Army Museum.

 

 

Edited 3 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Stereoview Paul]

Great, thank you - I will try to match their movements with Girdwood's to see if I can get a match.

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Stereoview Paul said:

Great, thank you - I will try to match their movements with Girdwood's to see if I can get a match.

I’m glad to help.  There’s no doubt about his regiment and only the 2nd Battalion were wearing Wolseley helmets at the start of the war.

[Stereoview Paul]

The most likely scenario is that they are from the 1st Battalion when stationed at Lahore.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Stereoview Paul said:

The most likely scenario is that they are from the 1st Battalion when stationed at Lahore.

Entirely possible, depending upon date, which you didn’t clarify other than to say “probably just prewar”.  In 1914 the 1st Battalion was the Home Service unit of the regiment and based at Bordon, Hants.

Edited 3 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Keith_history_buff]

1st Battalion were in India from December 1897 to December 1910, latterly at Quetta. They embarked at Lahore on 2 December 1910 and disembarked at Chatham on 23 December 1910.

At this time, the 2nd Battalion went overseas to South Africa, then China.

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

1st Battalion were in India from December 1897 to December 1910, latterly at Quetta. They embarked at Lahore on 2 December 1910 and disembarked at Chatham on 23 December 1910.

At this time, the 2nd Battalion went overseas to South Africa, then China.

I think that confirms the photos as 2nd Battalion.  There are very clear images of typical Chinese shoes with foot wrappings beneath, worn by two coolies in the frame where the troopship is level with the quayside, and a woman is allowing a child to reach across and receive(?) something from the soldiers on board crowding the ship’s side.  Tsingtao presumably.

Edited 2 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Keith_history_buff]

The photo in the original post would appear to be around 1910. Given the switch of the two battalions, the soldier could be in either battalion. If the OP has any further information that could better date the photo, it would be useful. It is interesting to see no puggaree around the helmet.

Your subsequent images are understood to date from 1914,  and to have come from a photo album in the possession of General Barnardiston who commanded the British and Sikh troops at Tsingtao. These have been passed to the National Army Museum, given they relate specifically to the Tsingtao operation against the Kaiser's forces, comprising 2nd Battalion, South Wales Borderers.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Keith_history_buff said:

The photo in the original post would appear to be around 1910. Given the switch of the two battalions, the soldier could be in either battalion. If the OP has any further information that could better date the photo, it would be useful. It is interesting to see no puggaree around the helmet.

Your subsequent images are understood to date from 1914,  and to have come from a photo album in the possession of General Barnardiston who commanded the British and Sikh troops at Tsingtao. These have been passed to the National Army Museum, given they relate specifically to the Tsingtao operation against the Kaiser's forces, comprising 2nd Battalion, South Wales Borderers.

Yes I think you’re right and you have raised a significant point, in that puggarees / pagris were authorised in clothing regulations for a specified list of stations and those stations only.  For example India yes, Malta and Gibraltar no.

NB.  Troops for Egypt and South Africa were issued one helmet and two pagris. Each Wolseley helmet came with a ‘cover’, which appears to be what we can see in the OP photo.

Edited 2 April , 2023 by FROGSMILE