Gnr 215332 John William Raynor – RGA

[8055Bell]

Gnr 215332 John William Raynor – RGA

John Raynor died from double pneumonia on 17/11/1919, aged 35. The husband of Alice Raynor of 13 Plough Street, Oldham. Burial at Hollinwood Cemetery.

Only WFA cards as military evidence of service and no identified connection with his demise.

[charlie962]

His service number seems to be for men mobilised c 1/5/1918. Posted to No1 Depot RGA then a battery within a Reserve Bde RGA. 

Most were miners/colliers ie reserved occupations and remained in UK for the duration of the war. Some went overseas for Army of Occupation but I get the impression not many. 

What was John Raynor's occupation?

Charlie 

Example 1

Example 2

Images from FindmyPast 

Edited 2 January , 2023 by charlie962

[8055Bell]

Thanks Charlie,

John Raynor was an under cotton carder when he married Alice in 1911.

Tim

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, 8055Bell said:

Only WFA cards as military evidence of service and no identified connection with his demise.

John William RAYNOR, 215332, RGA

These are only two pension cards & a ledger page [no MIC - so seemingly must have been only Home Service]

However perhaps not totally lacking in linkage of his service and death - Ok it seems a bit indirect now but I would think back in the day the MoP must have been satisfied to at least some degree in order to make any payout

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

Widow made a claim, Pension Widow's - cause of death shown - Alice RAYNOR, born 1887 - only shown as getting a £6 Grant 

Might seem puzzling as normally only £5 Grant for a widow - until you also see the the further note for 11 & 12 = the Royal Warrant Articles for a widow's pension and child's allowance [so will have been £5 + £1 respectively] - no pension award is however shown [but this doesn't necessarily mean something wasn't paid - unfortunately his/her main awards files is lost]

Such a grant(s) was pretty standard for "urgent necessary expenses consequent upon or caused by his death" = commonly used for newspaper inserts it might be worth looking at local newspapers to see if he was mentioned after his death [or perhaps even before it] - though I believe you have previously said the Oldham Chronicle is not [yet?] digitised/online.

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

And yet his widow also seems to have made a claim for an Alternative Pension Widow's [might this be done if no pension already in place??] - A pension ledger page from 1921, also referring to one child under 16 and suggesting then a pension of £1.6.8 and child's allowance of 10.0 might perhaps apply [but this latter APW seems unsuccessful - possibly on a technicality relating to a LC ?Life Certificate? @ss002d6252 may perhaps be able to further assist with interpreting such pension matters]

Possibly doesn't move things on much but may perhaps be of some interest.

M

[ss002d6252]

Reads like "Application was not made within one year of his (return)? of L.C."

I agree it seems to be some sort of technicality, as to what exactly I'm not sure at the moment.

Craig

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Reads like "Application was not made within one year of his (return)? of L.C."

Happy New Year Craig,

I wondered if it was issue of L.C. ?? but that didn't seem to fit particularly well and I have already very tentatively suggested "Life Certificate" as "Local Committee" didn't seem to work well either =???

So far we can't see the issue of a widow's pension and child's allowance off the PIC - would these have to be in place before an APW application was possible/made? = ???

Returning to the £6 Grant for consequential expenses - would you think this is indicative of some MoP acceptance of link between service & death? - as otherwise to me why was it paid??  I don't have the relevant RW [i..e the post-1918 RW, which I believe ended Sept 1919] to consult for the terms but would think unlikely to be paid unless there was some legal background = ???

M

Edited 2 January , 2023 by Matlock1418

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Happy New Year Craig,

I wondered if it was issue of L.C. ?? but that didn't seem to fit particularly well and I have already very tentatively suggested "Life Certificate" as "Local Committee" didn't seem to work well either =???

So far we can't see the issue of a widow's pension and child's allowance off the PIC - would these have to be in place before an APW application was possible/made? = ???

Returning to the £6 Grant for consequential expenses - would you think this is indicative of some MoP acceptance of link between service & death? - as otherwise to me why was it paid??  I don't have the relevant RW [i..e the post-1918 RW, which I believe ended Sept 1919] to consult for the terms but would think unlikely to be paid unless there was some legal background = ???

M

The APW referral was supposed to be made only after a widow's application (as it was the higher which would be paid).

The gratuity is something I've not particularly looked at. Although covered in the RWs it originated pre MoP so the full qualifying criteria are not something I've to hand (and if it's in my head, covid has hidden it) 

Craig

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said:

The APW referral was supposed to be made only after a widow's application (as it was the higher which would be paid).

That was my initial thought - but prior application and award of PW were not a given either.

As for the Grant ...

2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The gratuity is something I've not particularly looked at. Although covered in the RWs it originated pre MoP so the full qualifying criteria are not something I've to hand (and if it's in my head, covid has hidden it) 

I only have nothing for 1919 onwards [and of course things might have changed but will have a look at previous to see what might have been said previously - in Hogge & Garside it doesn't leap out for me at the moment.]

You rather suggest you are suffering Covid at the moment [orperhaps the aftermath].  I hope not, or if so then I hope you get well soon.

M