Guest Skinzloving Posted 1 April , 2005 Share Posted 1 April , 2005 Well hello everyone. This is my first posting, I am trying to research my great grandfather Robert Edgar Bertram Fox. I am however having very little joy so was very pleased to have come across this forum. At present I have no service number, no photographs or medals to go by, all I know is that on his wedding certificate his profession was as a soldier, 3rd Essex. At that time he was living at Felixstowe, Suffolk. His date of birth was 28/11/1897. By the way he was married on 01/01/1919. My mother was told as a child that he had served in the Somme and had been badly injured, but now that we have found that he was still a soldier in 1919 we are not even sure of these facts! Any help would be most gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Right, On Birth Certs, we have Robert Edgar B Fox, birth registered Dec Quarter 1897, Dover, Kent, Ref 2a-1013 Census in 1901 5 Postland Place, Dover, Kent. Father : Robert W Fox, age 35, Journeyman Butcher (I think), born Eltham or Elton ?, Kent. Mother : Emily M Fox, 30, born Dover. Children William H Fox, age 8, born Dover. Robert E Fox, age 3, born Dover. He would probably be one of these chaps: http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...&resultcount=48 http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...&resultcount=48 My money's on the first one in the East Kents, then the Essex. Each costs £3.50 to download. There is a good chance that it will state the Battalion(s) on the Actual Card to confirm 3rd Battalion Essex Reg't. I recommend one at a time, I think. If you look at his medal card: If he was wounded and unable to continue serving he would have got a Silver War Badge (SWB), if he served to the end of the war, he would have probably been moved to "Z" Reserve, in case of hostilities resuming. The only real way for you to confirm either of these is if his Service Record survives on file at the PRO at Kew, but only about 30% are available (the Luftwaffe burnt most of them in a bombing raid in WWII, bless them) Steve. PS The 3rd Essex Regiment stayed in the UK throughout the war. If he saw action it would have been with his other attachment. He would probably have been transferred when he was wounded. If he was in the East Kents (the Buffs), then I believe there is quite a bit of info floating about and maybe one or two experts around the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skinzloving Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Thank you so much for your help, I ordered the first medal card which I will try to attach to this message. Unfortunatly no Bn number, but I do believe it shows 'Z' in the box on the right. Is it possible to get the service records over the net or is a visit to kew in order,also where would I find any medical cards related to WW1? Do you know if E Kent and the Essex regiments kept records of their own, maybe I could find more information that way. Once again Thank you. At least I feel a step closer to knowing a little more...Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Service records and medal rolls are at Kew and are not available on-line. All infantry battalions on active service kept daily war diaries, which are also held there. As advised above, have a read of "Grandads war" on The Long, Long Trail (link top left of this page). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 I can't see any attachment, but the 'Z' in the right hand box more than likely means that he was de-mobbed and put on reserve on the basis that although the Armistice had been signed, the Allies didn't entirely trust the Germans to keep to it. My great-uncle has a date of Feb 1919 for his transfer to Reserve so 1919 could well fit in with your mother's memories. I hope we're discussing the right man! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skinzloving Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Sorry but for some reason I am finding it impossible to add attachment. It does seem that it could be my Robert Fox but of course it needs confirming...Thanks Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Firstly, there are no personal records held anywhere for the Buffs other than the National Archives (and my laptop). I can tell you that there is a possibility that he joined up with a relative because there was a Charles Fox whose service number was G-6180, only 10 away from Robert Fox. He went overseas with the 1st Battalion on 24/8/1915 and was discharged to class Z on 20/3/1919. I would be very wary of assuming that Robert Fox was also in the 1st Battalion. When these numbers were issued, the 3 service battalions had been formed and men were being posted all over the place to replace casualties in the Regiment. For example Alfred Sparkes whose number was G-6169 went to the 2nd Battalion. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skinzloving Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Thank you Mick for the advice. I was hoping that a look at the service records would confirm the right Robert Fox by giving his full name or address. Is this not the case, is that information not on the records? Do the service records normally give details of all the Battalions soldiers joined. As i believe he joined the war early on would that have made his chances of being in the 1st Battalion more likely. Where do you suggest I look next. Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Sharron, The service records should give details of his transfers and address of his next of kin. They are in War Office series WO363. However, these are known as the "Burnt" records, and for good reason. As I said above, many were burnt and/or water damaged during the Blitz and those that survive are somewhat spoiled. It is entirely possible that there will be gaps in any soldiers surviving records, while many records were destroyed completely. The records are actually stored in alphabetical order by surname (although there are some errors in the sorting, called "mis-sorts", I think). There are index folders on the shelves at Kew to help you find the right film roll. There is always a chance that if the above R Fox is not your man then the real Robert Fox's service records will exist and set you (and me!) right.. The Medal Rolls (to which the MICs are an index) at Kew usually have a higher chance of stating the soldiers battalion, which will be helpful if his records don't exist anymore. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Sharron If his service record exists it will probably indicate his address at the time of attestation. It is also likely to indicate his movements between units, although not necessarily the reason. Your best bet is to check the medal roll and service records as Steve says The jury is still out on the subject of service numbers and allocation to battalions. The service battalions were filled by New Army men in the order that they joined up. So, the 6th Battalion was filled up first, followed by the 7th and 8th. Generally the lowest numbers are in the 6th. There are a lot of exceptions and you occasionally see men being drafted to the regular battalions to fill gaps. Alternatively they may have had previous military experience and moved to Battalions after a shorter training period. Here is an example where a guy is allocated to the 1st Bn where his service number indicates that he would be in the 6th. For some reason he goes overseas 2 months after the men with adjacent numbers. I should state that this information is only true for the Buffs. I have not looked at other Regiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skinzloving Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Thank you Steve and Mick..you are both a great help to a novice! I am hoping to get up to Kew in the next couple of weeks....I know I will have a lot of work on my hands but I must admit I'm looking forward to it. Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Might see you there! I'm there on the 30th. Make sure you have a whole day if possible, especially if you order any doscuments. It's amazing how quick the time goes! You will need about three quarters of an hour to order any of the "real" documents from storage. e.g. War Diaries. (document ordering is not generally allowed over Saturday lunch, unless they take pity on you and give you a beginners ticket) Make sure you read the Rules on the National Archives website. They seem rather strict at first glance (no pens, no rubbers, 20 sheets of paper only, etc.), but they are there to protect the archive material. There are free lockers to put your other stuff in though. And book your readers ticket in advance on the website. It will save you time. The Pro is about a 40 minutes underground ride from Central London to Kew. The first port of call is probably the Fiche & Film room. The pillars in front of you through the doors have loads of leaflets to help you. Have fun! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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