Help interpreting B103 form

[fumblina]

Hope this is the right place rather than the medical forum.

This is the 3rd B103 in the record set for Samuel Tweddle Gibson.  This seems to be related to a hospital admission to Wallasey Hall Hospital in Cheshire on 22 Sep to 30 Nov 1918.  It's not clear on either set of paperwork what he was admitted for.

So what I have gleaned is that:

• He was certified as unfit for front line service (class B3) on 21 Aug.  This may have been done by M Base Depot in Calais (3MDB) while he was somewhere near Etaples? At the same time he was transferred from the roll of M-BD to E-Base Depot (3:EBD). 
• 3 days later on 24th, he is shown as joining E-Base Depot. The Long Long Trail does not show a location for EBD but F is the first in the list at Etaples so it is not unreasonable to suggest it might be there?
• On 1 Sep a W3083 Wound card was submitted (not seen it in the records)
• On 15 Sep he was allocated to be transferred to New Haven, England by the No 24 General Hospital in Etaples - another forum seems to say that this had been treating both infectious diseases and gas injuries but of course that might not be relevant
• On 18 Sep he travelled back to Blighty

Have I got that right?

Other questions:

• Could the 3 in 3MDB and 3EBD refer to the "No. 3 Infantry..." in the stamp under the signature?
• Can anyone read what it says next to the bracket in the "To Eng" section?
• What does per A5 mean here? (Army Form A 5 Form of Warrant delegating to an Officer power to convene district Courts-Martial doesn't seem appropriate here, although it does to the rest of his record - could this be self inflicted?)
• What does the big "SOS" dated Feb the following year reference? The handwriting seems to match the signature of the Major.
• Why does it say "Temporary" at the top?

Final weird thing is his regt number.  He was allocated 44094 on joining Yorkshire Regt.  On moving to Durham Light Infantry he was given 101737 but on quite a few documents this is written 101757.  On older documents the 44904 is crossed out and the new number written in but there are quite a few documents where the 3 or 5 looks darker than the rest of the text like it might have been overwritten.

Hope that is not too many questions! I'm beginning to think I should have cut my teeth on a simpler set of service records.

Thank you.

[BillyH]

2 hours ago, fumblina said:

What does per A5 mean here?

I think it is (to England) per H.S. Newhaven (ie Hospital Ship 'Newhaven')

BillyH.

Edited 6 December , 2022 by BillyH

[fumblina]

I've found this about his battalion:

On 3 July 1918, the 29th Battalion DLI landed at Boulogne, as part of a reformed 14th Division (the original Division has been badly mauled in the German attacks earlier in the year), and spent July and August training and working well behind the front line.

On 28 August 1918, as victory over the German Army on the Western Front was beginning to look a real possibility, 29 DLI moved north to Ypres, where the battalion provided working parties as well as continuing its training. Finally, on 13 September, 29 DLI went into the front line for the first time south of the Menin Road. And on 17 September, the battalion suffered its first casualties, when over-eager patrols were met with grenades and machine gun fire.

 https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/12895/

So that rules out any combat related injury.

 

Thank you BillyH for the ship information.  I was even able to find a picture and description of it  

[BillyH]

also, the hospital in Cheshire was Wallasey Town Hall Hospital - and the term next to the bracket is Nasal Polipi (Nasal Polyps, his medical condition).

By the way, he has a pretty comprehensive set of papers, and much better than average!    and the SOS scrawl is probably just someone's initials who has signed off the papers in 1919.

BillyH.

Edited 6 December , 2022 by BillyH

[fumblina]

Thanks, I had discounted polyps as not being something that would need hospital or keep him in hospital for that long.

But I've just looked up more info and it looks like they could get long term infection with lots of pus and severe head aches and sinus pain that could have made him sick enough to need treatment.

And the surgery could be done by opening up the sinuses from the outside. They sewed the eye lids shut to stop the eye getting damaged. It had diagrams and photos and I'm not sure I will sleep tonight now 🤣

If that's what they did he deserved his hospital stay. He was in hospital when his daughter was born but he'd have been in France otherwise so I guess that made no difference. 

[TEW]

I'm a bit late on this but I've just looked through his record and will make a few points. having looked through the Etaples Base Commander's diary.

The diary is a bit sparse on Infantry Base Depots, but for Sept 1917 he is using the numerical system. The LLT has IBDs 9, 11, 14-16, 17-27, 30-35 & 37-41.

Two examples from the diary for 16 IBD and 23 IBD.

I have no idea when the system was changed to being alphabetical but E, F, H & J closed down 24/1/1919.

Your B103 has two entries for 23/8/1918 in Etaples. First one does look a bit like 3m BD and second one 3 EBD.

I can't see how 3 IBD works nor can I see why there'd be numbers and letters mixed up as per 3* E Base Depot. Possible that the number should read 30-35 or 37-39. Perhaps the EBD is E Base Depot or perhaps No. 3* (Etaples) Base Depot. Possible they transitioned from numbers-letters around Aug 1918 which confused the clerks in the Yorkshire Infantry records office. More on this later

Quote

Could the 3 in 3MDB and 3EBD refer to the "No. 3 Infantry..." in the stamp under the signature?

No, This is No.3 Records Office in Yorkshire that dealt with his records.

 

Quote

What does the big "SOS" dated Feb the following year reference? The handwriting seems to match the signature of the Major.

There are other forms in his file with the 'SOS 23/2/1919' annotation. I've noticed he was absent again 5/2/19-17/2/19 and one form is annotated SOS Absentee 23/2/19. See image 34215 on Ancestry. I suspect the SOS relates to this period of being absent. Exactly what SOS stands for I don't know, if it was someone's initials you'd expect a rank or position to be given as well. Sent Out S???

Vaguely connected to this is that in Aug 1919 the Ministry Of Pensions requested a batch of forms from his file including what looks like 3x B103.

The Records Offices did not like to send originals so would send copies. from the above it looks like his B103 was copied for the absent incident and then later possibly 3 copies for the MoP.

Quote

Why does it say "Temporary" at the top?

I'd suggest the version that ended up in his file is one of the copies sent out that was returned.

 

More on this later, Base Depots

As I've suggested the B103 is a copy of the original it may be that the clerk who had to copy it out had trouble reading the original, hence the 3 rather than EG. 30 BD.

 

Quote

 

On 1 Sep a W3083 Wound card was submitted (not seen it in the records)

On 15 Sep he was allocated to be transferred to New Haven, England by the No 24 General Hospital in Etaples - another forum seems to say that this had been treating both infectious diseases and gas injuries but of course that might not be relevant

On 18 Sep he travelled back to Blighty

 

Although the W 3083 is a common entry on B103 forms I doubt very much the W3083 cards were returned to the Infantry records offices to be used as an update. I think it's far more likely that a clerk at 24 GH compiled a list of men loaded onto HS Newhaven and that list was sent to the Records Offices. The actual W3083 may have had the same details written by the same clerk in which case it's technically correct to show the W3083 as the source of the record.

He was loaded onto HS Newhaven bound for the UK 1/9/18. There is a form that states he was Home on 1/9/18. The 15/9/18 date is the date the Yorks RO received the information from the W3083 and made that entry.

Nothing I can see that happened 18/9/18.

TEW

Edited 7 December , 2022 by TEW

[tullybrone]

Hi,

SOS is a common acronym meaning Struck Off Strength with the opposite meaning acronym TOS meaning Taken On Strength.

Steve

[BillyH]

58 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

SOS is a common acronym meaning Struck Off Strength with the opposite meaning acronym TOS meaning Taken On Strength.

Pretty obvious now you have pointed this out Tullybrone 

[fumblina]

Thank you TEW & Tullybrone, that's given some more to work with. 

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I have no idea when the system was changed to being alphabetical but E, F, H & J closed down 24/1/1919.

Matters changed again in December 1917 when the IBDs were given letter prefixes rather than numbers. Thus, for example 29 IBD became D IBD.  https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/infantry-base-depots-in-france-1914-1918/

1 hour ago, TEW said:

Nothing I can see that happened 18/9/18.

That's the embarked and disembarked date on the B103 - the ports are either too faded to see or not written in.

1 hour ago, TEW said:

There is a form that states he was Home on 1/9/18

Thank you I've seen that now.  I'm not sure how reliable that is as the France date shows the date he was transferred to BEF (19 Jul), but he was transferred to 29th DLI on 20 Jun and the 29th DLI landed at Boulogne  on 3 Jul.  I guess he could have just come later but why would have have been hanging about for a month after being transferred before joining them? I've checked and his last discipline with Yorks was 3rd June so not in detention, unless there is a missing conduct page for DLI- which is possible as there is about 6 months with no punishments at this point! 

54 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

SOS is a common acronym meaning Struck Off Strength with the opposite meaning acronym TOS meaning Taken On Strength.

That's interesting as on the regimental conduct sheet there is another large signature dated 23/2/19 with a comment saying "Still serving".  He was also still considered part of 29th DLI when he was admitted to hospital later that year.    Was there some kind of weird process during the end of war demobilisation that would have had soldiers in kind of halfway stage?

Thanks all

[TEW]

I've now seen the IBD details in the Etaples Diary. The lettered base depots must have superseded a group of numbered bases. 

 

Quote

That's the embarked and disembarked date on the B103 - the ports are either too faded to see or not written in.

Yes it is for those events but this is when he arrived in France, I read the date as 18/7/18.

The diary for HS Newhaven has it departing from Calais at 12.45pm and arriving Dover 2.45pm 1/9/18. He must have been sent by Train from 24GH to Calais for Evacuation. There are in fact three Ambulance Trains that left Etaples for Calais 1/9/18 with 1,545 patients. Multiple sources point to him arriving back in the UK 1/9/18.

The left hand column on the B103 is for the dates the reports were received not for the date of the event which comes under 'Date of Casualty'

Having said that the first two entries occurred on 23/8/18 but the report received looks like 21/8/18 which makes little sense unless this B103 is a copy of a poorly written original.

I don't think in this context that SOS = Struck Off Strength. As you say he was still on strength. I'd still suggest Sent Out S? or Sent On S? It could be Si Opus Sit which means 'If there is a need'.

TEW

[TEW]

The SOS may equate to struck off strength!

As he's just been punished for his absent period it would make sense to be SOS of his battalion. Don't have access to the relevant sheet at present and it's a bit feint anyway.

TEW

[Matlock1418]

22 hours ago, fumblina said:

Samuel Tweddle Gibson

19 hours ago, fumblina said:

He was in hospital when his daughter was born

Not aiming to redirect this thread but, if you have not already done so, you may wish to look out for an interesting pair of pension cards for Samuel Tweddle GIBSON, 101737, DLI, on WFA/Fold3 - relating to his dependants' pension and allowances claims [married 29.6.18, died13.6.19 - widow Janet, two daughters Ellen & Janet who became the step-children of Arthur Marcham HETHERINGTON, Navy]  https://www.fold3.com/search?docQuery=(filters:!((type:general.title.id,values:!((label:'UK,+WWI+Pension+Ledgers+and+Index+Cards,+1914-1923',value:'1019')))),keywords:'101737,gibson',sortOrder:ALPHABETICAL)

M

[fumblina]

Thank you Matlock.  I've got the record pinned in Ancestry but don't have access to Fold3.  I might collect a load of records up and do a trial or something! 

The wedding date is really useful as it was not legible in the service records.  His regiment arrived in France 4 days after the wedding. Could this be a reason for him not arriving in Boulogne with the rest of his regiment?   To be honest I'm surprised the wedding wasn't during one of his AWOL sessions earlier that Quarter.  Poor Janet would have been 6 months pregnant at this point, no wonder it was a registry office wedding. Maybe he was forced into doing it before going to France - I mean how much later was he planning on leaving it?!

Ellen was born while he was in military hospital the first time, and Janet after he died.  I believe that the 2 children and their mother lived with their mother at maternal grandmother's home - there are 12 of them still living there at the 1921 census.  Hard to imagine being a widow at 18 with 2 infants, even with support from family.  I just hope Arthur was a better husband to her.  Mind you the grandmother had been widowed twice at this point and was only in her 40s and had 2 young children of her own, so no easy life for any of them.

[David Tattersfield]

On 07/12/2022 at 19:44, fumblina said:

Thank you Matlock.  I've got the record pinned in Ancestry but don't have access to Fold3.  I might collect a load of records up and do a trial or something! 

 

Access to the Pension Records is possible by joining The Western Front Association - for £29 per year you can have full access to all WW1 British Army (and Air Force and Royal Navy) Pension Records on Fold3 >>> https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/pension-records/

[fumblina]

On 07/12/2022 at 17:46, TEW said:

The SOS may equate to struck off strength!

I've looked again and it seems like he was struck of strength on 23rd Feb for going AWOL again.  I wouldn't have been able to interpret that if you hadn't given the acronym TEW so cheers for that!  It was the 2nd time that month and for a really long time 23rd Feb to 9th April 1919.  It seems like they threw the book at him this time and he was in detention for 42 days.  

Assuming he went into detention while waiting trial on 10th he would have been released on or around 22nd May.   He was admitted to York Military Hospital with Bronchitis and Pleurisy on 28th having had pain in his chest for a week.  He received treatment and briefly rallied but died on 13th June.

I don't know if this can be attributed to the conditions he would have endured while in detention - would they have been significantly worse than barracks? - or if it was just bad luck that he contracted what was probably Spanish Flu while in there.

I am guessing while he had been officially struck of strength that his last regiment was kept on his file for where he served as he never got reallocated.  Although he shows as 29th DLI who he went to France with, it does say 4th Battn where he was struck off not the 29th *shrug*

It seems like he must have been a deeply unhappy young man throughout this period with an equally unhappy ending. I only hope that some of those last few weeks AWOL were spent with his family and perhaps his young daughter.

[TEW]

It was Steve - tullybrone that originally put struck off strength up as the answer. I went against that idea until I realised he can't be at duty if he's under arrest, awaiting trail or serving time.

Looks like he went absent again immediately after being released or punished for an earlier absent spell.

Can't really comment on the conditions while in detention, suspect it's going to be much worse than barracks and with poor food and plenty of hard labour (I guess) from Feb-May 1919.

Assuming the diagnosis of Bronchitis and Pleurisy is correct does that automatically equate to Spanish Flu? It may do but I'd suspect he was in cold and damp conditions where a variety of ailments flourished.

4th Battalion DLI was a depot/training unit, along with the 3rd DLI it would serve to hold men awaiting discharge or in this case in detention.

TEW

[fumblina]

On 13/12/2022 at 13:38, TEW said:

It was Steve - tullybrone that originally put struck off strength up as the answer.

Sorry Steve, thank you

On 13/12/2022 at 13:38, TEW said:

Assuming the diagnosis of Bronchitis and Pleurisy is correct does that automatically equate to Spanish Flu?

I've checked at it is possible but unlikely to get a primary bacterial infection for bronchitis.  As to whether that means it has to be flu, definitely not - it can be any viral infection that causes lots of mucus but given the timing it would increase the likelihood of it being flu.  I believe that there was a huge upsurge in early 1919 in the UK as the soldiers came back home.

I also found this article which gives a description of purulent bronchitis which is very similar to Samuel's (except the "without orthopnoea") down to the heart failure as cause of death.  They are looking into these cases from 1916-17 to investigate whether this was an earlier outbreak of Spanish Flu.  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(19)30114-8/fulltext

[BillyH]

On 06/12/2022 at 22:03, BillyH said:

also, the hospital in Cheshire was Wallasey Town Hall Hospital 

this might be of interest?   http://www.historyofwallasey.co.uk/wallasey/wallasey_town_hall/index.html

BillyH.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Pleurisy is the symptom of pain in the chest, worse on breathing in and out.
Bronchitis in those days was often a vague diagnosis encompassing wheezing symptoms and signs, and almost any respitatory infection that presented as a cough but without any signs attributable to an underlying pneumonia. An effusion is the exudation of fluid out of the lung tissue into the pleural cavity so that  shows up as stony dullness on percussing the chest, and the absence of breath sounds. An effusion is indicative of a serious disease process.

The problem you have with trying to make diagnoses based on incomplete records a century on, is that you can make a case for and against most diseases.

So my take is - He may or may not have had an episode of Asthma or bronchitis, resulting in a pneumonia with an effusion.

The cause of the infection may or may not have been a bacteria, a virus or TB.