Burial details for WW1 casualty 1922, ?Hackney/Hoxton area

[clive_hughes]

Hi,

I'm trying to check details for a former soldier of the 10th London Regiment, who seems to have been wounded early in 1918 and died at the Richmond Military Hospital, Surrey, on 14.7.1922 aged 23 following a series of operations to correct his injury.  

His name was James Davis, born c.1898.  His funeral was apparently held at St.John's Church, Hoxton on 21.7.22, at which time his widow Elizabeth's address was 42 Weymouth Terrace, Hackney Road, London E2.  

The grave site is unknown by his descendants, but given the date and his home area, can anyone suggest a library/archive or relevant Family History Society who might have indexes to registers of local burials?  I'm assuming they weren't obliged to have the interment well away from this area. 

Clive 

[Keith_history_buff]

That looks like a Haggerston home address. Both Haggerston and neighbouring Hoxton were in the Borough of Shoreditch until 1965, when it became amalgamated with Hackney.

I would have thought that burial registers, if they have survived, would have microfilm copies held at the London Metropolitan Archives. 

Interesting that he was in the Hackney Gurkhas.

[Keith_history_buff]

It appears the microfiche records go as far as 1875

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/68229?availability=Family History Library

 

The East of London Family History Society Group
Private group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/417997282266348

The church is still in existence today.

[Keith_history_buff]

I've a family member who lived a stone's throw away who died in 1982 I believe, and she was buried at Manor Park. Maybe he was too?
https://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/RESEARCH_GUIDES/web_detail_rg/SISN+34?SESSIONSEARCH

 

[clive_hughes]

Keith,

Thank you very much for those informative responses and the links contained.  Even if I can't check them all, James Davis' descendants can have a go!  

It might depend on whether his was a new grave, or in an existing family one.  If it was new, maybe his widow was also buried there in due course? - I'll have to ask, though the present generation don't seem to be aware of the site.  

If I wanted to check notices of the funeral in the local Press, can you suggest which newspapers might fit the bill for that area in 1922?

 

Clive 

[Keith_history_buff]

To my mind, this raises the question of when did local burials in London start to cease, with the result that the City of London Cemetery in Manor Park became the common resting place of the deceased working class. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Cemetery_and_Crematorium

The nearby Borough of Poplar had its Tower Hamlets cemetery in operation until 1966. It is now a park of sorts, popular with dogwalkers, understandably.

Tower Hamlets local history archive does have some old newspapers on microfiche. I would imagine it is the same for the Archives & Local History section, who ought to be advising as to which local newspapers were in existence for residents of the Borough of Shoreditch. I believe that the East End Advertiser has been around for a long time.
https://hackney.gov.uk/archives

[clive_hughes]

A slightly belated thanks Keith, for your interest and useful advice.  Still following this up!

 

Clive

[nhclark]

Clive,

Is Davis classed as a war death?

Burial details might be in the Fold3 pension records that I referred to in the other thread.

Noel

[Matlock1418]

7 hours ago, nhclark said:

Is Davis classed as a war death?

Burial details might be in the Fold3 pension records that I referred to in the other thread.

FromWFA/Fold3 Pension records - he claimed/received a disability pension on discharge and his widow claimed after his death - she was refused [likely because a post-injury/war/discharge marriage]

For info: such records at WFA/Fold3 are very unlikely to refer to a burial [well I cannot recall seeing one and I have looked at thousands and thousands of such records]

M

[clive_hughes]

Hi Noel,

No, I don't think that Davis would qualify as an "official" war death.  He died beyond the final date of the CWGC's remit for commemoration, and he was only given 6 months worth of Pension shortly after discharge in 1919, nothing else thereafter.  

No sign of him on the Silver War Badge roll relating to men discharged on the grounds of wounds or illness before the end of 1919.  ?Possibly he didn't apply for the Badge, or somehow he didn't qualify.  The authorities clearly let him have some sort of surgical treatment at the Richmond Military Hospital not long before he died, but as his service file hasn't survived we don't know the full details about his wound/injury and many other matters.  

For all I know he might be commemorated where he lived in East London; but even if he is, that definition of a "war casualty" was always a local decision.  I myself always honour such decisions, but it wouldn't change officialdom's mind at all.  

Cheers,

Clive

[nhclark]

On 01/12/2022 at 23:48, Keith_history_buff said:

To my mind, this raises the question of when did local burials in London start to cease, with the result that the City of London Cemetery in Manor Park became the common resting place of the deceased working class. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Cemetery_and_Crematorium

The nearby Borough of Poplar had its Tower Hamlets cemetery in operation until 1966. It is now a park of sorts, popular with dogwalkers, understandably.

Tower Hamlets local history archive does have some old newspapers on microfiche. I would imagine it is the same for the Archives & Local History section, who ought to be advising as to which local newspapers were in existence for residents of the Borough of Shoreditch. I believe that the East End Advertiser has been around for a long time.
https://hackney.gov.uk/archives

IIRC, church graveyards began to be closed in the 1860s as they reached capacity. So gradually thereafter more and more burials were taking place at the bigger civil cemeteries. Exceptions were people who had pre-purchased a burial plot at a specific church (the parish wealthy!).

The funeral service was at St. John's, Hoxton. The registers are part of the Middlesex, Westminster, collection held at the Westminster City Archives, a collection that goes up to only 1912, and these are on FindMyPast. The only record of James I can find on FMP is his death registration - there is no burial record. I've looked everywhere else that I can think of, but no luck.

It would be worth trying any local newspapers. Reporters in those days actually reported facts rather then their opinions, and sometimes a report of the funeral will say where the deceased is to be interred.

Otherwise, I wonder whether the burial place of James' wife Elizabeth is known? She may have married again of course, as James was only 23 when he died. I see that she was Elizabeth Mills, and they were married at St. John's Hoxton on 22nd May 1920. 

Lastly, this may be a little more promising. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=1041&page=24 The hospital became Grove Road Hospital, Richmond and closed in 1974. Records of patients admissions and discharges from 1843 to 1974, and clinical and patient records from 1903 to 1974, are at Richmond Local Studies Library https://www.richmond.gov.uk/local_studies_collection. It would seem worthwhile to pursue this last lead.

Hope this helps a little.

Noel

Edited 9 December , 2022 by nhclark

[clive_hughes]

Hi Noel,

yes, Anglican church registers are unlikely to be of much help re. location unless the deceased was buried in the churchyard or some similar burial ground directly run by the parish.  By the early 1920s one of the larger urban cemeteries is indeed more likely, and I've recently asked his family if they have any clues as to that (including where Elizabeth was buried).  Thanks for looking up some of the possible sites.

I hadn't twigged that they were also married at St.John's Hoxton, that's handy to have on the record.  The Hospital records may also be useful, and I'll pass that on to their descendants as well.

Thanks again,

Clive

  

[clive_hughes]

Oh,

Incidentally, where did you find the date/place of the 1920 Wedding please?  My own attempts on FMP etc. were fruitless.

 

Clive

[nhclark]

10 hours ago, clive_hughes said:

Oh,

Incidentally, where did you find the date/place of the 1920 Wedding please?  My own attempts on FMP etc. were fruitless.

 

Clive

Clive,

Ancestry. Knowing his birth year it was easy to search the marriage records for a James Davis marrying an Elizabeth over a narrow year range. Very few and only one real chance based on the registration district, and the registers for St. John's Hoxton happen to be there too. 

You can PM me if you would like further details. 

Noel

[clive_hughes]

Noel,

That's OK, got the details now!  Thanks very much and the compliments of the Season to you.

 

Clive

[DavidOwen]

Late to this and not sure if it helps really but Deceased Online does not appear to have a burial record for him.

[clive_hughes]

David,

Thanks for having a look on my behalf.  I suspect that finding a burial entry would be quite a task, given the many variables involved; unless the local newspapers carried a notice of the service "with burial following at..."

They were ordinary working-class people, and there might not even have been a notice published.  

Clive

[Kath]

In case of interest:

https://londongardenstrust.org/conservation/inventory/site-record/?ID=HAC040

St John's Garden (Hackney)

"The churchyard was laid out as a public garden in 1893 with grants from the MPGA, the MBW and the LCC."

[clive_hughes]

Kath,

Thanks for that little history and description.  It puts the life events of John Davis and his family into a present-day context, and I can tell his grandson about it.

Just in passing, two of my Anglesey casualties were crew members of the Royal Edward - it's possible we may have corresponded on that subject before.

Clive 

[Kath]

13 minutes ago, clive_hughes said:

possible we may have corresponded on that subject before.

Yes, I've still got your excellent emails 

There are two men recorded from Holyhead:

WILLIAM JONES - Greaser, and THOMAS McLEOD,  Deck Steward. 

 

[clive_hughes]

That's them!  There are a couple of Holyhead researchers who will likely know more than I do, but if you want to be put in touch just drop me a pm.

Clive